Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ncar!tank!nucsrl!accuvax.nwu.edu!bob
From: bob@accuvax.nwu.edu (Bob Hablutzel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Apple developers & programming on the Mac
Message-ID: <10330136@accuvax.nwu.edu>
Date: 18 Feb 89 15:32:35 GMT
References: <1309@ndmath.UUCP>
Organization: Northwestern U, Evanston IL, USA
Lines: 43

[Talk deleted about the VAXStation]

I just wanted to say in passing - this is great hardware. We don't have a 
VAXStation, but we do have a MicroVAX 2000 (comparable), which is not that
much bigger than a Mac II (smaller footprint, actually, since it's in two
parts) and runs full VMS operating system. In fact, it will support multiple
users, etc. (Now - I don't want to discuss the differences between the VMS
school and the Mac school of computing; drop me a note if you really want to
get into that...)

>Remember though...it's not the VAX hardware I was trying to compare...it's
>the SOFTWARE that's so much better.  There isn't anything in the VAX 
>development tools that couldn't be duplicated on the Mac...it's just that
>nobody (including Apple) has DONE it yet.

Well, yes and no. DEC does put out decent compilers, although they aren't
perfection. I don't know if it's been fixed, but the Pascal used to generate
some fairly poor CASE statement code (in some special cases (or CASES, as the
case may be...)). And the DEC idea of 'one machine, one call standard' is
one of the machines strongest points. BUT, IMHO, the editors can't touch
the MPW editor (including, nea especially, TPU), and MMU and the like are 
expensive.

What DEC does have, and Apple could and should and would improve their 
machine if they did, is the best damn documentation I've ever layed my
eyes on. These people actually believe in (oh no!) _examples_ of what the
routines do. For complicated routines, you can have several pages of examples
to should the many different ways the routine can be used. APPLE SHOULD
BE DOING THIS!!. I don't care if it makes the Apple documentation 6' of 
shelf, I'm tired of having to use the damned debugger to understand trap
calls!

Sorry, didn't mean to get carried away. But I do wish Apple would produce
complete, accurate, updatable, extensible documentation sets for the Mac.
If it were seperate from Inside Mac, and I had to flush away that investment,
I wouldn't mind. Great programs only come from great documentation.

>The best way to get TONS of software for a new computer is for the 
>Manufactureer to put together a really GREAT development system, then GIVE
>IT AWAY!

I wouldn't consider either the VAX or the Mac to be 'new', nor would I consider
DEC 'giving away' anything.