Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!labrea!decwrl!sun!pitstop!sundc!seismo!esosun!jackson@freyja.css.gov From: jackson@freyja.css.gov (Jerry Jackson) Newsgroups: comp.ai Subject: Re: Question on Chinese Room Argument Summary: Might as well give up! Keywords: experience Message-ID: <330@esosun.UUCP> Date: 4 Mar 89 00:58:39 GMT References: <3369@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> Sender: news@esosun.UUCP Reply-To: jackson@freyja.css.gov (Jerry Jackson) Organization: SAIC, San Diego Lines: 42 In-reply-to: lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) This is mostly intended for Steven Harnad.... I tried a few months back to convince people in this newsgroup that there was a difference between say: the *experience* of pain and the signal travelling through the nervous system.. or the *experience* of seeing blue and anything you could possibly tell a blind person about it. My conclusion: Most people who post to this newsgroup have no subjective experience. No wonder you can't get your point across. You have obviously been making *very* clear sense, so I can't come up with any other explanation. :-) I wonder if Mr. Lee considers the effect of hitting his thumb with a hammer linguistic. If I said, "Gee, Mr. Lee, does that *hurt*?".. he would probably reply one of two things: a) It seems to hurt, but I could be wrong.. or b) No, the pain is merely a linguistic abstraction Once again, anyone who has not seen your point by now probably never will (or at least not through more attempts to convince them) I speak from personal experience. Please continue trying if you are up to it, though, since I (and probably many others) find your postings refreshingly clear, well thought out, and interesting. Now, because I'm a glutton for punishment... Does anyone really think someone can be wrong about whether or not they are in pain? Wouldn't it seem really odd to respond to the statement: "I just stubbed my toe and boy does it hurt!" with: "No it doesn't." It is in this sense that Mr. Harnad intends you take the statement "I understand." You might be wrong in an objective sense... your model might be inaccurate. I think everyone has had the experience of insight, though. You know what I mean. It's what you are referring to when someone asks you if you understand and you say "Yes". Do you understand? --Jerry Jackson