Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!mcvax!hp4nl!philmds!nlgvax!hans
From: hans@nlgvax.UUCP (Hans Zuidam)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: foreign language requirements for PhDs
Message-ID: <226@nlgvax.UUCP>
Date: 18 Mar 89 16:53:33 GMT
References: <7287@spool.cs.wisc.edu> <2851@eos.UUCP> <401@rb-dc1.UUCP> <21572@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> <1280@wpi.wpi.edu> <134@cs.columbia.edu> <1253@blake.acs.washington.edu>
Reply-To: hans@nlgvax.UUCP (Hans Zuidam)
Followup-To: soc.culture.misc
Organization: Philips Research Geldrop
Lines: 64

[This discussion belongs in soc.culture.misc, not here. ++hz]

[For one reason or another I felt a strong urge to put each paragraph in
 another language but I could control myself ;-)]

Funny thing that this discussion is about 'foreign' languages. I always
thought there were only *other* languages (insert your own amount of smilies
here).

One of the things I noticed in this discussion is that it hardly concerns
itself with the real reason you learn an other language for: better inter-
action with people. As you may (or may not) know, most of your professional
life (and private life for that matter) consists of interaction with other
people. When you do speak an other language it is much easier for to convince
someone who has that language as her/his native tongue. You should interpret
'convince' as 'sell' or 'have them do something for you' or 'have them do
what you want', etc.

In article <1253@blake.acs.washington.edu> robert@blake.acs.washington.edu (Gedankenleere) writes:
>All this crap about foreign language requirements making a better, more
>understanding, more tolerant human beings out of most of those who take
>foreign language have no hard, large-scale supporting data to back it up!!!

I do not need such data. I understand what you write and I am more tolerant
towards your view. So it helped for at least one person ;-).

>Neither do the perpetual claims that it allows you to learn English better!!

Yes, it does allow you to speak your own language better. Because if you
would take the trouble of learning a few other languages, you will notice
there are a lot of simmelarities in languages.

>Virtually all the time spent in a foreign language class is on mechanics of
>grammar, vocabulary, composition, idomatic speech patterns, NOT only direct
>confrontation or examination of your (and theirs) cultural perceptions and
>prejudices!! (make that: NOT ON instead of NOT only")

It is true that during classes you do not see much of the other cultures.
But then again, that is not what those classes are for. When you travel,
that is when you will get in contact with those other cultures. If, then,
you do not speak (or even try to speak) their language, you will indeed
never get 'in touch' with those other cultures. Of course Americans are
in a bad position in this respect. They have to go quite some lengths to
see some real 'foreign' cultures.

I never met someone who thought I spoke bad german or french. They always
liked the fact that I at least *try* to speak their language. That is also
what bothers a lot of people about Americans: you regularly meet ones who
do not even try to speak the language of the country they are visiting. For
the people of the country they are visiting it is felt as if the American
says something like: 'hey, you do not understand my english, how stupid of
you.'. This puts people off. Please note that I do not say that all
Americans (or even a significant portion of them) are like this. But it does
put people off, especially people, like taxi drivers, porters, customs
officers and so on, who did not have a Phd education.

Hope this motivates you a bit to start a course on the Dutch language ;-).

					Hans
-- 
Hans Zuidam                                    E-Mail: hans@pcg.philips.nl
Philips Telecommunications and Data Systems,   Tel: +31 40 892288
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