Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!peregrine!elroy!ames!pasteur!ucbvax!moravian.EDU!nicholaA From: nicholaA@moravian.EDU Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple Subject: Re: Disappointed in the IIgs (was: GS/OS and programming standards) Message-ID: <8903072109.AA01818@batman.moravian.edu> Date: 7 Mar 89 21:09:24 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 124 >> From an article by Collin Broadrick Douglas: >> It sure is nice to know that someone from Claris has such support >> for the II line. > As I said before, my opinions are not Claris's opinions. Claris is VERY > SOLIDLY behind the future of the Apple IIgs and AppleWorks GS. Once we > shipped, I got off that project, but there are still plenty of very > capable people -- INCREDIBLY capable people -- working on it. Even though it's refreshing to know that your opinions are not those of Claris, just the fact that people with opinions like yours _work_ for companies which profess to support the Apple II line disappoints me. I'm steamed, and I do not like it. >> I have a GS and I am proud of it. I love it very much. Yes, there are >> days that I wish I had more speed etc. but overall I am perfectly happy >> with my GS. I knew when I bought my computer that I wasn't getting a real >> powerhouse, I accepted that. If people wanted a really powerful computer, >> they probably should have gotten a Mac Se/30 or a mac II. I am going >> to get the Transwarp GS AND the Floating Point Engine (if they will work >> together) and that will make the GS much quicker than it currently is. >> In fact, with those two add ons, I think that my GS will be fast enough >> to compete with most computers on the market. Especially since most of >> the programs I use are 8bit (Appleworks, Proterm) but I use enough 16 bit to >> fully justify buying a GS (Diversi Tune, Graphicwriter etc.) > I have to agree with you here. With a TransWarp and an FPE, your GS ought > to be about as fast as an SE. That's plenty fast enough to make the machine > actually useful for 16-bit programs that use the new toolbox routines. I (gasp!) also agree with you here. The speed of the IIgs *SHOULD* be increased markedly if apple expects it to remain the cash cow it has always been... > But Apple could have made the 7MHz 65816 standard, rather than requiring > an add-on board. At the time, no they couldn't have "made the 7Mhz 65816 standard" -- because at the time, and even today, reliable 8Mhz 65816's did not exist in quantity. Second of all, apple hadn't investigated the caching technology which it now employs in the IIc Plus, which would be necessary to run the IIgs at or around 7Mhz or faster. To run the 65816 at 7Mhz without caching would require some _really_ fast and EXPENSIVE memory. If you wanted a 7Mhz GS at the time (1986), then you would have had to pay a steep price for it. > I have no complaints at all about the Apple II line before the GS. I > learned to program on a ][+. My biggest problem with the GS is that I > expected so much MORE from Apple. There was (and still is, as Scott > points out) a lot of potential for this machine. When I first got to > play with one of these things, it was GREAT! I thought "Wow! Just think > what this machine is going to be like when it's released!" And I was > (obviously) disappointed. Forgive me if I lose sight of what Apple HAS > done, but it really hurts to see what they haven't. Exactly -- at the time (1986), the IIgs _was_ great. For a brief moment, it was a really nifty machine. Since then we've seen the introduction of a new line of LaserWriters (the II line), the Mac SE, the Mac II, Mac IIx, Mac SE/30, and Mac IIcx (introduced yesterday, no?) My point is this -- Apple has let the IIgs languish in the 2 1/2 years since its introduction. Does anyone remember that at the time of the GS's announcement, there was *NO* Mac SE at all? And here, today, 1989, we consider the Mac SE to be obsolete! Think about the GS! The software for the IIgs is really 'neato' stuff. The hardware is not. >> Another thing, My GS has color, does a Mac SE? no >> MY GS has nice sound (a full 16 voices using Diversi Tune, yes, that's rig >> Diversi Tune gives you ALL 16 voices) a mac has four voices. >> My GS can run almost ALL apple II software. I have seen the reviews for >> II-in-a-Mac and I am not impressed. > You have good point, but it all depends on what you want. Color and sound > are important, but not as important as speed and power. I want WYSIWYG, > and I want it fast. No Apple II can give that to me. I want to be able > to program in a high-level language. The languages available for the II > aren't as fast or powerful as the ones available for the Mac. And that's because Apple hasn't done _squat_ towards making the IIgs a more _POWERFUL_ system since it's introduction. No floating point coprocessors, no doubling of processor speed, no doubling the ROM space, no support for virtual screen space, no hypercard, nada, zilch, zip. Apple introduced the IIgs and then gleefully ignored it (except for system software, and amen for that!) until today... and *STILL* ignores it. You want to blame someone? You want to holler at someone? You have the unique opportunity to make a difference because you work for one of the 2 giant entities which comprise Apple. You want to make a diffference? Then go tell people _inside_ Apple that you're disappointed with the machine. Tell them to make it better. We *ALREADY* know the IIgs hardware needs work, but do apple's engineers? > If you aren't on the same speed-and-power trip I am, and you want what the > II has to offer, more power to you. How about getting off the "speed-and-power trip" to take a look at what we've all been screaming about for ages now and pitching in to HELP? > Maybe I >should< go work for NeXT....Hmmm... Maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you should try to remain employed at Claris and help champion a cause that really needs everyone who can possibly help TO help. >> A very MAD Collin Douglas A very interested Andy Nicholas > -- > Jeff Erickson \ Internet: krazy@claris.com AppleLink: Erickson4 > Claris Corporation \ UUCP: {ames,apple,portal,sun,voder}!claris!krazy > 415/960-2693 \______________________________________________________ > ______________________/ "I'm so heppy I'm mizzabil!" > ------------- Andy Nicholas CsNET: shrinkit@moravian.edu Box 435, Moravian College InterNET: shrinkit%moravian.edu@relay.cs.net Bethlehem, PA 18018 liberty!batman!shrinkit@sun.com uucp: rutgers!lafcol!lehi3b15!mc70!shrinkit AppleLink PE: ShrinkIt rutgers!liberty!batman!shrinkit Send replies only to "shrinkit" as our mailer is case-sensitive.