Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!oliveb!apple!claris!krazy From: krazy@claris.com (Jeff Erickson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple Subject: Re: Why Keep the //.... Message-ID: <9064@claris.com> Date: 14 Mar 89 05:28:25 GMT References: Organization: Claris Corporation, Mountain View CA Lines: 66 From article , by jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness): > > I wish some people at Apple Co. could read this. Me too! > > I have heard arguments from across the board over the Apple // being a > "dead architecture" (from MacWeek) and too old and so forth. However, I > have had a chance to talk to fellow students at Carnegie-Mellon's CS and > Computer Engineering Departments. Almost ALL of them I talked to got their > start on an Apple //. The exceptions were a few Pets, Atari's, and > Commodores, but ALL of them were familiar with the // and liked it when they > worked with it. > > They agree that a 12 year old, if given a Mac or PS/2, will NEVER learn > programming or computer science. > > The Apple // may not built like a workstation like a Mac, designed to handle > raw power with little overhead, but the // has more to offer to the young > programmer than any other machine. The logical progression from BASIC to > Machine Language to the first assembler was crucial to many CS and CE > majors today. Those that I have asked say this is NOT possible now that the > // is disappearing and the Mac has taken over. The Apple // generation will > be the last of the CS generation. If this sounds rash, consider trying to > interest a 14-year-old in UNIX. The next generation will look at computers as > appliances, things to be used but without a clue and much less an interest in > how it works. The "logical progression" from BASIC to machine language? Pardon? I guess this is all a matter of opinion. More and more CS and CE majors these days are going through life without ever having to deal with assembly language much at all, and NEVER having to deal with machine language directly. I don't think it's necessary to learn exactly what the computer's doing with your code (machine language) before learning how to make your code WORK. I do think it's important to have some exposure to assembly language, but I don't think it has to be that soon, unless of course that's what the kid wants. I went from Applesoft BASIC to Pascal instead of to assembly. So I'm weird. > > * This, if for NO OTHER REASON, is why the Apple // should survive * > > ...and is one of the reasons that so many people remain loyal to the > machine. This, in my opinion, is the equation that the marketers in Apple's > high offices have neglected. > > So, Apple, Let's see what your labs, your Cray, and your engineers can do. > Let's see a fast, capable OS, speed that doesn't discourage, and some Pride. If the Mac were simpler, or a simple environment could be introduced onto it, I'd prefer a programmable Mac, simply because it does more. I don't mean HyperCard, either. (What kind of programming language doesn't have arrays?) But out of all computers on the market right now, the one I'd by for my kids to play on is an Apple //. Not a GS, but still an Apple //. You've raised a good point. Is Apple going to make it's rumored K-12 Mac programmer by 12 year olds? Or is HyperTalk as good as it gets??? Anyone from Apple out there? -- Jeff Erickson \ Internet: krazy@claris.com AppleLink: Erickson4 Claris Corporation \ UUCP: {ames,apple,portal,sun,voder}!claris!krazy 415/960-2693 \________________________________________________________ ____________________/ "I'm so heppy I'm mizzabil!"