Xref: utzoo news.misc:2730 rec.humor.d:1768 news.admin:5125
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ukma!uflorida!news
From: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU (USENET Master)
Newsgroups: news.misc,rec.humor.d,news.admin
Subject: Re: Expansion of rec.humor.funny to other networks
Summary: a few thoughts on censorship
Message-ID: <19926@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>
Date: 15 Mar 89 23:06:51 GMT
References: <439@corpane.UUCP> <3100@ddsw1.MCS.COM> <9773@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>
Reply-To: drc@beach.cis.ufl.edu
Organization: UF CIS Department
Lines: 72

>I would oppose the appointment of Matt Crawford as moderator, given his
>stated position to take no account of the potential offensiveness of
>submissions.
From: drc@beach.cis.ufl.edu (David Cabana)
Path: beach.cis.ufl.edu!drc

I am not here concerned with who ought to moderate rec.humor.funny.
I am concerned that anyone would suggest that a potential moderator ought
to be ruled out because he is willing to permit free speech on a newsgroup.
Mr. Richmond explains his reasoning:

>If you'd like to read an excellent statement of why he should be more careful,
>look at the recent posting (in alt.hypertext, of all places) of the system
>manager who is cutting rec.humor (not clear whether he includes rec.humor.
>funny, too) because of offensivess.
>
>Note also that Stanford has cut rec.humor.funny (and I've never had any
>contact with them: they did this of their own volition.)

Mr. Richmond is concerned that more sites will drop the offensive
rec.humor.funny.  He continues: 

>There is a whole lot to discuss on the freedom of speech issue -- and
>I've had my say, and don't plan on starting up again, except to remind
>you all that while freedom of speech is an important right, freedom
>from fear and discrimination is also a basic right.  When more than
>one right is at play, trade-offs have to be made between them.

Rights multiply without bound.  The Bill of Rights guarantees freedom of
speech.  The genesis of the right of freedom from fear and
discrimination is harder to trace.  Mr.  Richmond, no one can guarantee
anyone else freedom from fear and discrimination.  Our fears are our own
creations.  As for discrimination, I recall less muddled times when
'discriminate' meant simply to distinguish among choices.  Now
'discrimination' means bigotry.  Would that we were free of it.  I do
not believe that bigotry can be eliminated by silencing bigots, whether
the censor be the state or the moderator of rec.humor.funny.  Nor do I
believe that such elimination ought to be attempted.  Bigotry lives in
the mind of the individual; to use the apparatus of the state (or the
net) to silence those guilty of harboring the 'wrong' thoughts is both
futile and (more importantly) evil.  On that road lies tyranny. 

Compulsory censorship is disgusting and immoral;  voluntary censorship
is worse.  If we are silenced by force, let us at least have lost the good
fight.  Those who consent to silence themselves have no one to blame
but themselves.  Nor will they ever escape the censor's eye, for it will
be their own.

>On a pragmatic basis, you should all consider the future of the 
>rec.humor.funny newsgroup.  Given that Stanford has already pulled
>the plug, and the alt.hypertext poster has done so as well, it seems likely
>that a policy of allowing unrestrained offensive material will simply
>lead to more sites cutting the newsgroup out.

Pragmatism.  Let us yield to every pressure, lest we suffer the slightest
consequence.  So what if Stanford pulled the plug?  If they bow to the
censors, shall we?  (I understand that Standford did not pull the plug.
Bravo.)

Still, ideals are a forgotten thing; pragmatism holds the field.  Let us
be pragmatic.  The censorship of rec.humor.funny will not save the
world; it will (briefly, until they move on to their next conquest) make
happy a few souls who would not permit spoken what they do not wish to
hear.  There are precious few opinions (or jokes) that will not offend
somebody.  I find the spoken or written support of censorship offensive;
I will find a way to live with it. 

		David Cabana
		drc@beach.cis.ufl.edu

		Should the above address fail, try
		drc@bikini.cis.ufl.edu