Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!ames!killer!wnp
From: wnp@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Wolf Paul)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Racist Jokes (was: Re: Expansion of rec.humor.funny to other networks)
Summary: "Jewish", unlike "Baptist" is an ethnic designation
Message-ID: <7597@killer.Dallas.TX.US>
Date: 20 Mar 89 10:12:08 GMT
References: <439@corpane.UUCP> <3100@ddsw1.MCS.COM> <9773@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <784@twwells.uucp> <3459@ficc.uu.net>
Reply-To: wnp@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Wolf Paul)
Organization: The Unix(R) Connection BBS, Dallas, Tx
Lines: 75

In article <3459@ficc.uu.net> jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) writes:
>In article <784@twwells.uucp>, bill@twwells.uucp (T. William Wells) writes:
>> Let me put it this way. I am Jewish enough that Hitler would have sent
>> me to a concentration camp.  (My mother was born Jewish; 
>
>You *can't* be "born Jewish", any more than you can be "born Presbyterian".
>You can be born to persons who believe in Judaism; that doesn't make
>you Jewish.

Hold it, Jeff -- "Jewish", unlike "Presbyterian" or any of the other
"Christian" denominational designations, is not merely a designation of
religious affiliation, it is an ETHNIC group, like "Irish", or "Hispanic".

>> I was raised
>> Catholic.) My wife *is* Jewish. I don't consider myself Jewish; I'm
>> an Objectivist and find all religion equally repugnant. (Yes, my wife
>> is also now an atheist.) 
>If you're wife is now an atheist, she is *not* Jewish.  You can't be
>a Jewish atheist anymore than you can be a Baptist atheist.

Someone should have told that to Uncle Adolph ...

>The operative word here is stereotyped.  Enough!  When are we going
>to mature, to put away religious/racial/national stereotypes and
>judge persons as individuals???  

Maybe you should consider the fact that Jewish jokes for the most part
originate from WITHIN the Jewish community; who are you or I to tell our
Jewish friends that they cannot poke fun at what THEY perceive to be
typical traits and reactions of their own people?

As is fairly usual in these highly polarized discussions, I find that 
truth and fairness lie somewhere in between the extremes.

It is a fact that people raised within a particular culture or subculture
exhibit certain common traits, and frequently respond to various situations 
in typical, predictable ways. To recognize that, to talk about it, whether
in the form of anecdotes, jokes, or otherwise, is not in itself offensive --
especially when these jokes originate within the group concerned.

I have no doubt that there are truly offensive, racist jokes -- but not
all ethnic jokes are racist, and not everyone who enjoys ethnic jokes
is a racist.

I also don't doubt that there are people who find all ethnic jokes
offensive; it would be a matter of personal maturity and good manners
not to insist on telling such jokes in the company of such people; that
is also the reason why ethnic jokes are maybe out of place in a
newsgroup. Note I said maybe -- I am not making a pronouncement here,
just suggesting a possibility.

>
>> Third, I laugh at it for the same
>> reason that we, later, laugh at all disasters that we manage to
>> survive and grow from (my childhood, in this case).
>
>And for this you need the joke to be told in a "Jewish accent".
>Sigh.

Well, yes, if that's the accent he associates with his childhood 
environment, and if he perceives the attitudes displayed in the joke
to be somehow typical of his own ethnic group.

>
>Para un Tejas Libre,


I dare say "Tejas" is a lot more "libre" than a lot of other places
on this globe ...

Wolf Paul
-- 
Wolf N. Paul * 3387 Sam Rayburn Run * Carrollton TX 75007 * (214) 306-9101
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