Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!dptcdc!dpmizar!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!pasteur!ames!amdcad!sun!pitstop!sundc!seismo!uunet!microsoft!gordonl
From: gordonl@microsoft.UUCP (Gordon Letwin)
Newsgroups: alt.sex,sci.bio
Subject: Re: reproductive stragegy and human behavior
Summary: Baboons, indeed!
Keywords: Men,Women,Competition,Selection
Message-ID: <845@microsoft.UUCP>
Date: 10 Mar 89 17:57:32 GMT
References: <756@microsoft.UUCP> <1714@psu-cs.UUCP> <800@microsoft.UUCP> <7337@rosevax.Rosemount.COM>
Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA
Lines: 45

In article <7337@rosevax.Rosemount.COM>, carole@rosevax.Rosemount.COM (Carole Ashmore) writes:
> 
> Oh goodness.  The trouble with 'The Argument from the Baboons' as my
> college anthro professor used to call it is that you can 'prove'
> anything about evolutionary trends by citing only the species that
> demonstrate the traits you want to prove are important  --just as
> certain religious people can 'prove' anything by quoting selectively
> enough from the Bible.  

This is true enough.  The idea is to look at the balance of evidence.
If there isn't a uniform distribution of behavior, then thats an important
fact that is giving you info.


> Let's see now.  Most ungulates fall on the 'fast reproductive rate'
> side; most of them are prey, not predetors, and must keep their
> numbers up to keep the species up and the predetors in dinners.

Everybody must keep their numbers up.  Everybody keeps their numbers
up as high as possible.  Most ungulates have a SLOW reproductive
rate,  in the context of this discussion.  One a year.  Even three
a year.  A fast reproductive rate is 3 litters of 10 a year, or
10 million eggs a year.

> Ungulates that are not prey don't tend to keep harems, or even, for
> that matter to keep males as part of the herd; look at
> elephants.  

Yes, lets LOOK at elephants.  Isn't this the "fallacy of the baboons"?
You've ridiculed the use of examples to establish points, allowing
only counter examples.  Well, since I didn't state that ALL ungulates
keep harems, your mention of elephants is not a counter example, and
is therefore a fallacy, by your own reasoning.

Also, add to my arguments males that keep territorys.  THis isn't
the same thing as a harem, but its very similar - it provides
exclusive access to females.  Males in a great many specicies
keep territorys and fight off other males, esp. at breeding season.
Females may keep territories too, because they also have a food
role, but females don't repel other females in their territorys
during breeding activities.

Yours towards goose/gander sauce parity

	gordon