Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!phri!marob!manes
From: manes@marob.MASA.COM (Steve Manes)
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Subject: Re: Commercial software in comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Message-ID: <595@marob.MASA.COM>
Date: 21 Mar 89 09:15:14 GMT
References: <88151@felix.UUCP>
Organization: ESCC  New York City
Lines: 76

From article <88151@felix.UUCP>, by art@felix.UUCP (Art Dederick):
> All members of ASP should be taken out and shot, or better yet,
> boiled in oil.  I wish to God this thing called "shareware" had never
> been invented.  I see so many "Public Domain" sources that end up
> being shareware I want to scream.

Conspicuously absent in your message was the name of even one such
Shareware program.  I'm in ASP, know the members and know their software
and haven't got a clue what you're referring to.  Please specify, or else
someone please open a window to vent the warm air in here.

My software, while influenced by many others, is my own.  There's not a
single other BBS remotely like it, public domain, Shareware or commercial.
Other ASP authors may have more traditional wares, or clones, but
Shareware is >copyrighted< and, as such, was never public domain.  If
you find one something you suspect, contact the Federal Copyright Office
and register a complaint.

All ASP members produce Shareware programs BUT not all Shareware
authors are in ASP.  Applicants to ASP have their software evaluated by
a committee to (1) determine that it's an original work, (2) that the
author owns it, (3) that the work is of a sufficient caliber of
professionalism and quality to (3a) bother asking money for it and (3b)
fairly represent ASP's professionalism and (4) that the author's program
and documentation meets ASP standards.  You can rage on about Shareware
and, in some cases, you might be justified in doing so.  That was
precisely the reason why ASP was formed.  There are a lot of charlatans
out there hanging up the "Shareware" logo and ripping off consumers,
which affects all of us.

> After looking around and
> downloading a software package (costs me money just to do this, phone
> charges, CIS charges etc.) I then discover I must pay for the software
> I was lead to believe was PD.

How were you led to believe it was PD?  How do you know it's not a
pirated commercial program or a virus or a piece of crow meat completely
unsuitable for the task you grabbed it for?  The fact is, you don't.
Would you rather spend 20 minutes downloading a PD hard disk organizer
that trashes your ST4096 directories or one that works (because it's
passed muster by ASP) and requests a modest registration fee?

Besides, if you're paying CIS $$ to download programs rather than
calling your local BBSes for free, who should you blame for that?

> It goes double when I send away for a
> set of floppies and find out the same

There are also fly-by-night mail order houses.  If it's an ASP signatory,
like Nelson Ford's "Public Software Library", their catalog spells out
quite clearly that a particular program is Shareware and how much the
registration fee is.  You're just dealing with the wrong houses.

How would you propose to denote a Shareware program listing on a BBS
when an author can't even guarantee that people will maintain the
distributed filename of the program?  By right, the distributing site
should be required to tell users that.  But I imagine if your law ever
passed, sysops would just post an announcement that any software found
on the BBS is presumed to be Shareware unless otherwise noted.
 
> The bottom line, commercial software is still commercial software,
> it does not belong on Usenet.  Announcements of the existence of such
> software and the way to get it is ok.

A good point.  Shareware >is< commercial software, no argument.  Authors
who distribute such programs intend to make money from them, whether
they have a 21-day licensing period or meekly ask for spare change
somewhere in the back of the manual.  The decision on whether or not
this kind of commercial software is suitable for Usenet is not mine to
make, fortunately.  But the crack about being "a little bit pregnant"
seems to apply if you're going to have ANY of it here, you know, which
would include anything from Vern Buerg's LIST to PKZIP to PCWRITE.
-- 
Steve Manes            Roxy Recorders, Inc.             Magpie-HQ BBS
UUCP : {rutgers|cmcl2}!hombre!magpie!manes              (212)420-0527
Smail: manes@MASA.COM