Xref: utzoo comp.graphics:5016 comp.std.misc:87 comp.windows.misc:1086 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!lll-winken!uunet!mcvax!kth!draken!tut!router!fintuvm.bitnet!t8m-kaup From: T8M-KAUP@FINTUVM.BITNET (Asko Kauppi) Newsgroups: comp.graphics,comp.std.misc,comp.terminals.bitgraph,comp.windows.misc Subject: Re: Graphical BBS ? (Summary 1/2) Message-ID: <716T8M-KAUP@FINTUVM> Date: 26 Mar 89 21:31:42 GMT References: <707T8M-KAUP@FINTUVM> Organization: University of Turku, Finland Lines: 314 ************************** GRAPHICAL BBS? ******************************* * * * This is a summary of the best or most interesting replies I have * * received to my NetNews "Graphical BBS?" article. At the time of * * typing this, I have received a total of 30 replies, to which * * I have posted a total of 27 responses. This summary consists of * * both messages TO me and FROM me. * * * * Thank you all for your support, info and ideas! * * * * As to the order of the messages included, I have divided this * * summary into two sections: The first one concerns the already * * existing software & standards that could be used in developing * * a graphical bulletin board system; the second one is about our * * GraphiBox project itself - ideas, views, hopes etc. etc. * * * * Oh, and by the way, sorry about the messages in German... :-) * * * * Yours, / Asko Kauppi / alias T8M-KAUP at FINTUVM.BITNET * * at MAMMUTTI.UTU.FI * * * ************************************************************************* * * * SOFTWARE & STANDARDS MENTIONED IN THE REPLIES: * * * ************************************************** - Teletex & Videotex Too simple & rough resolution. - UW-terminal emulator (UNIX) Only ASCII, not for us... - WM-window manager (UNIX) Only bitmapped graphics, UNIX & Bitgraph terminals dependent, restricted... - Macintosh Workstation (Macs) Mac dependent. ? Ultimatum Software BBS (Macs) ...want more info... ? Atredes BBS & Skypaint (Amigas) ...want more info... - Extended ANSI codes Too limited & long command codes.. ? Postscript Licence fees etc., only static graphics but great support! ? NAPLPS standard ...getting more info... ? Andrew Message System (UNIX) ...getting more info... ======================================================================== ** EXTENDED ANSI ** Date: Thu, 16 Mar 89 10:43:42 EST From: Chris A. Widmann To: Asko Kauppi On the subject of windowing BBS's, I have been working with a few people on something similar. We are making a bbs that would use a special term package to open windows, use the mouse, etc. It would send some sort of command character followed by a command, say window(x1,y1,x2,y2)...etc.. So far we have managed to produce a small version that does this through ANSI on IBM-type machines. A mouse could be used if you could send the location of where it was clicked on the screen over in a command format. Only one slight problem exists. You would need to write your own term program for the users to use. This may sound easier than it actually is, but to get a user to switch from his favorite term package (Procomm, Boyan, Mirror or ZTerm on Macs) would be very hard. I was considering it could be done either as a terminal emulation or protocol interface for the system. Maybe.... I have used such a term program created by Wayne Bell for his "Extended ANSI" ( (He is the author of WWIV BBS system (I run one!)). Great idea, but not many people use it. If you could make it easier, all the luck to you. I am interested as a BBS operator, I'd love to be the first on the block with such a system. Good luck, and if you want any suggestions, or when you have a working system, let me know! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Widmann alias: Woody woody@pawl.rpi.edu - Internet CSE student at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY snail-net: 154-B Best Luther Rd., East Greenbush, NY 12061 USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== ** ATREDES BBS for AMIGA ** Date: Thu, 16 Mar 89 14:07:42 EST From: Trevor Paquette To: Asko Kauppi There is a program for the Amiga called Atredes BBS. It uses a graphics protocol called Skypaint. So far it can handle lines, boxes, filled boxes, circles, filed circles, freehand lines, iff pictures and different fonts. There are plans to include iff sound, mouse and joystick control as well. I can't remember the address of the company, but if you look in a magazine called AmigaWorld it should have an ad. Hope this helps. Trev Trevor Paquette/GraphicsLand, Calgary, Alberta ..uunet!{ubc-cs,utai,alberta}!calgary!paquette ICBM:51 03 N/114 05 W calgary!paquette@cs.ubc.ca Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter ======================================================================== ** ULTIMATUM BBS (Mac) ** Date: Sun, 19 Mar 89 10:28:31 PST From: well!aleks@lll-winken.llnl.gov (Brian J. Witt) Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA To: Asko Kauppi Check out the newsgroup alt.bbs. There is a group called Ultimatium Software here in the states that is working on a graphical BBS for the Macintosh. Here is their signature. Check it out. >Sean R. Penndorf | | Programming and Fantasy >!texsun!uokmax!srpenndo | Welcome to Macintosh | go hand in hand... >srpenndo@uokmax.UUCP | | They're both a pair of >GEnie: S.PENNDORF | Ultimatum Software | dream worlds. --- brian witt ======================================================================== ** NAPLPS standard ** Date: Fri, 17 Mar 89 13:04:30 PST From: paul@Atherton.COM (Paul Sander) To: Asko Kauppi There is a graphics-based service called "Prodigy" here. It is based on the NAPLPS standard. It doesn't do windows, and it's audience is not the programming community, but it does all of its interactions via a graphics interface, and can read mouse movements as well as the keyboard. The Prodigy host is some sort of large machine. Customers buy software for their PCs and Apples. The software is basically a NAPLPS client with modem controls built in. Hope this helps, Paul paul@Atherton.COM = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 28 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 89 13:55:21 PST From: paul@Atherton.COM (Paul Sander) To: Asko Kauppi Asko, > What might be 'here'? I wasn't able to figure it out on the basis > of the mailing routes. Where and what is Atherton.com? Sorry about that. Prodigy is a service that is offered nationwide in the USA. It is offered through Sears (known mainly as a nationwide chain of department stores, but they own many other enterprises, such as financial consulting firms and so on). IBM apparently has been involved with setting Prodigy up; my mother was a Prodigy beta tester, and she found out about it through her job at IBM. [...text deleted...] > But what is the NAPLPS standard? Never heard of it... If you have time, > I would appreciate a brief introduction. Especially analysis on the > future of the NAPLPS would be most welcome| Thanks. NAPLPS was developed jointly by U.S. and Canadian standards bodies. A copy of the standard itself can be obtained from ANSI. If you need an address, I can get one for you. They charge money for copies of standards, but I don't know how much they charge for NAPLPS. Also, Byte Magazine did a series of articles on NAPLPS a few years ago. If you have access to archives or back issues, you might check them. All the information I have on NAPLPS itself comes from the Byte articles. They gave me some good ideas for a drawing program I did as an assignment for one of my undergraduate classes. Finally, there has been some discussion recently on Usenet's comp.graphics newsgroup, which is where I saw your original correspondence. Good luck, Paul = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 35 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 89 21:47:26 PST From: paul@Atherton.COM (Paul Sander) To: Asko Kauppi Asko, The specific issues of Byte Magazine containing the NAPLPS series are: February-May, 1983. It really is a four-part article, and it seems to be an excellent introduction to NAPLPS. Paul ======================================================================== ** ANDREW MESSAGE SYSTEM ** Date: Sat, 18 Mar 89 16:33:18 +0100 From: Oliver Laumann Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany To: Asko Kauppi You might want to look into the Andrew Message System. It is part of the X Window System distribution from the MIT. Regards, -- Oliver Laumann net@TUB.BITNET net@tub.UUCP = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 47 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 89 13:17:19 +0100 From: Oliver Laumann To: Asko Kauppi > X-Window habe ich selbst nicht anwendet, aber weiss doch, worum es geht. > Von dieses Andrew Message System weiss ich aber gar nichts. K|nnten Sie > bitte die Sache mir ein bisschen vorstellen, so dass ich wusste, ob es > eine Alternative fuer unsere System sein k|nnte. Vielen Dank| Ich habe mir Andrew auch nicht sehr genau angesehen, aber es enthaelt ein ``Multi-Media'' Message System. Das heisst, eine Message (Mail-Message oder eine Message in einem Bulletin Board) kann nicht nur gewoehnlichen Text enthalten, sondern Graphiken, Raster-Bilder und sogar animierte Bilder. Andrew ist mit Hilfe einer objekt-orientierten Erweiterung von ``C'' programmiert. Da das Andrew-System sehr komplex ist, wuerde ich eher versuchen, darauf aufzubauen oder es abzuaendern, als die gesamte Funktionalitaet neu zu entwerfen und neu zu implementieren. -- Oliver Laumann net@TUB.BITNET net@tub.UUCP = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 44 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 89 10:24:34 +0100 From: Oliver Laumann To: Asko Kauppi > Uebrigens, ist das System nur auf dem Unix anwendbar? > Braucht es X-Windows? Andrew setzt das X Window System voraus; ob es zur Zeit auch auf anderen Betriebssystemen als UNIX laeuft, weiss ich nicht. > Gut, gut, gut... Ist es PD oder kommerziell? Weder noch. Es unterliegt verschiedenen Copyrights (z.B. von IBM), ist aber frei verfuegbar (als Bestandteil der X Window Distribution). > Ja, wenn Andrew gut genug ist. Ich muss mich also in Verbindung mit > einem setzen, der mehr davon weiss. Am liebsten mit einem der > Programmieren des Programmes... Ob das nur m|glich w{re... Ich wuerde die gerade neu eingerichtete Newsgroup "comp.soft-sys.andrew" lesen; ausserdem gibt es Mailing-Lists zum Andrew System. [...text deleted...] Gruesse, --OL = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 64 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 89 18:52:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Maria G. Wadlow" To: Asko Kauppi Asko, I will send you the standard packet of information about Andrew which should give you a good overview of the system. We also have a videotape of the system and a reference manual for the multimedia toolkit which are available for a small fee (to cover postage, etc). I will make sure that an order form for these is included in your packet. Please let me know if I can help you in any other way. Maria ----------------------------------- Maria Wadlow maria+@andrew.cmu.edu Information Technology Center Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890 (412) 268 - 6794 ======================================================================== *** This was only part I of my summary - messages concerning the *** *** GraphiBox project itself are to be found in part II... *** _____________________________________________________________________ Asko Kauppi alias T8M-KAUP at FINTUVM.BITNET (BitNet MAMMUTTI.UTU.FI (InterNet Student of Physics Turku University addr: Kakskerrantie 176, 20960 Turku, FINLAND Finland tel : +358 (9)21 588 359 / 588 434