Path: utzoo!telly!attcan!dptcdc!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ukma!gatech!ken
From: ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii)
Newsgroups: gnu.gcc
Subject: Re: GNU's not GNU...
Summary: rebuttal to nasty apple comments...
Message-ID: <18214@gatech.edu>
Date: 22 Mar 89 04:42:29 GMT
References: <27674@apple.Apple.COM>
Reply-To: ken@gatech.UUCP (Ken Seefried iii)
Organization: Georgia Tech, Atlanta
Lines: 76

In article <27674@apple.Apple.COM> jk@Apple.COM (John Kullmann) writes:
>I couldn't figure out where to post this so pardon me for posting it here.
>
>FLAME ON.
>I think it is bullshit that just because Stallman has a bug up his ass about
	       ^^^^^^^^ 					    ^^^
>Apple's corporate policies and actions that the GNU project 
>will have nothing to do with A/UX. 
>
>I was going to port over gdb, but fuck it if the GNU-nixs won't
				   ^^^^
Perhaps we could start with the fact that you people seem to have a
little problem with net.manners, not to mention taste...

>                             It's bullshit to ignore and piss off us poor
>software peons just because you do not like Apple's corporate policy. It
>is self-defeating towards the goals that GNU is pursuing, and if you think
>that ignoring/rejecting us is somehow going to cause Apple to change its
>corporate policies you are living in a fantasyland.

First off...you AREN'T just a 'poor software peon'.  As Tech.Mangr.,
you are (at least from the outside looking in) the main line of
Apples corporate policy.

No...I doubt that any action by FSF is going to change Apple policy.
That, of course, is the really sad part.  Certainly, Apple has proved 
their lack of regard *US* software peons in the trans-Apple world.  
Note the price hikes, dictatorial lawsuits, etc.

I am not in a position to speak authoritatively for anyone but myself,
but within the somewhat fanciful guidlines (I do like most of his
ideas, though), non-support of Apple products is CERTAINLY in line
with the FSFs world-view.  Note also that there are many, many equally
futile protests that go on every day...many of them garnering great
respect.

>
>So I guess GNU is freeware/copyleft/etc/etc as long as we all do what Stallman
>or the GNU-nixs want. Great attitude.
>FLAME OFF.
>

Perhaps...but then you are more than free to hack the stuff all you
want.  FSF just doesn't want it.

>Is there anyone else out there that has met with a brick wall when trying to
>get changes for a particular architecture rolled back into some piece of
>GNU? 

No...there are no other companies that I know of that have earned 
proscription...

>Is there more to GNU's hatred of Apple than some misguided philisophical
>beliefs? Am I wrong to feel this way?
>

Misguided?  In your humble opinion.  There are quite a few who find
these beliefs quite reasonable.  You, of course, can feel anyway you
want...there are a lot of people who would agree with your side also.

>--------------------            -------------------
>John Kullmann			"All opinions and comments are mine alone"
>A/UX Technical Mgr		..!apple!jk	jk@apple.com
>Voice: 408-973-2939

Once upon a time, I thought about buying a Mac II A/UX machine.  Then
I used one.  Okay, I said...it's version 1.0.  Then I listened to the
convo in comp.unix.aux...and YOU talk about "great attitude".  Then
FSF announced non-support.  That was it.  

So you lost one little sale, partially because of the FSF (partially
because of Apple).  Perhaps a few thousand software peons like me
WILL change Apples policy...but I don't see it...

	...ken seefried iii
	   ken@gatech.edu