Path: utzoo!telly!attcan!dptcdc!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!sharkey!itivax!vax3!scs From: scs@vax3.iti.org (Steve Simmons) Newsgroups: gnu.gcc Subject: Re: GNU's not GNU... Message-ID: <884@itivax.iti.org> Date: 28 Mar 89 14:39:46 GMT References: <27674@apple.Apple.COM> <6396@cbmvax.UUCP> <878@itivax.iti.org> <2963@kalliope.rice.edu> Sender: news@itivax.iti.org Reply-To: scs@vax3.iti.org (Steve Simmons) Organization: Industrial Technology Institute Lines: 81 In article <2963@kalliope.rice.edu> dboyes@titan.rice.edu (David Boyes) writes: [[a great deal of reasonable commentary in response to my posting. Rather than get into a long involved discussion, I'll clarify a few of my points and then step aside.]] >In article <878@itivax.iti.org> scs@vax3.iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes: >>Apple has P-Oed rms, and in response he's refused to put AUX stuff into >>FSF software. I think this policy is misguided at best, and at worst is >>counter to the expressed philosophy of FSF as I understand it. > >How? Apple has consistently acted in a fashion counter to the >goals and ideals behind the GNU project. Why should RMS waste >blodd and sweat over something that he has little or no control >over and no indications that any changes are in the works? Two Points: first, the great bulk of "blood and sweat" would come from the Apple folks. RMS would act as a co-ordinator, just as he presently does for all the other ports of GNU software. Not to underestimate the amount of work he's doing! It continually amazes me. Second point: the complaint from the Apple person about the situation tells me that (a) Apple employees are aware of the problem, and (b) their response is *not* to change Apple's policy but rather to abandon FSF code. >> The *worst* possible >>way is to make free software completely irrelevant to them. > >Not if all your competitors can supply superior software at low >cost because they chose to be more sensible on corporate policy. >Given the choice of a something like a Sun 3/50 or a DECstation >3100 or a Mac IIx running A/UX, I'm going to take the Sun or the >DEC box because I can get superior versions of the C compiler and >GNU Emacs for nothing. Agreed. But Apple couldn't give a damn. What percentage of their sales are to software developers? Close to zero. I think a better tactic would be to get FSF s/w working under AUX, build some products with it, and let Apple see how faster/more portable software benefits them. Carrot, not stick. >> DEC, IBM, and others regularly sue >>over 'intellectual property' rights. What makes Apple particularly evil? > >Because DEC and IBM sue over substantial duplication of code or >concept stemming from exposure to a product, not some nebulous >appearance-oriented concept like "look and feel". If Apple's >reasoning is correct, they (Apple) owe the workstation design >group at Xerox PARC an abolutely staggering amount of royalty >money. Check your facts. Go examine closely what DEC has done to people over the BI bus, or IBM over the ROM bios. It's no less pernicious than Apple, and was considerably more successful from the sue-ers point of view. Note also that Apple *did* pay Xerox Parc an absolutely staggering amount of royalty money. A royalty on every Mac made until recently, when the licence was finally paid in full. [[nota bene: According to this week's PC Week, legal experts expect Apple to lose the suit. Not because "look and feel" is copyrightable, but because they don't have a good claim on inventing overlapping windows.]] >> Its content should be determined by those >>willing to do the work, not by the political opinions of Stallman. > >It's Stallman's dream. He can run his show any way he wants to. When he asks us to pitch in with help, money, and put our own work under the FSF copyleft it becomes a little bit more than just his show. He's definately the guiding light, but not the owner. >David Boyes / VM & Unix Systems Support / Rice University - ICSA >dboyes@icsa.rice.edu (Internet) DBOYES@RICE (BITNET) | Historian >[biggies]!rice!dboyes (UUCP) 713-527-4852 | At Large.. >NOTE: Rice University doesn't always agree with everything I say. Steve Simmons Just another midwestern boy scs@vax3.iti.org -- or -- ...!sharkey!itivax!scs "Hey...you *can* get here from here!"