Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uflorida!novavax!twwells!bill
From: bill@twwells.uucp (T. William Wells)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Racist Jokes
Message-ID: <801@twwells.uucp>
Date: 28 Mar 89 21:17:02 GMT
References: <439@corpane.UUCP> <3100@ddsw1.MCS.COM> <9773@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <7597@killer.Dallas.TX.US> <3491@ficc.uu.net> <77278RWC102@PSUVM>
Reply-To: bill@twwells.UUCP (T. William Wells)
Organization: None, Ft. Lauderdale
Lines: 45
Summary:
Expires:
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Keywords:

I truly hope that during the days that I've been waiting for my feed
to catch up that the following has been resolved. But if not...

In article <77278RWC102@PSUVM> RWC102@PSUVM (R. W. F. Clark) writes:
: In article <3491@ficc.uu.net>, jeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) says:
: >But ethnic jokes generalize to the point that they almost imply that
: >these responses or traits can be ascribed to *every* member of the
: >group -- a highly anti-individualistic concept, and one not
: >supported by the evidence.  Wolf, I hate to burst your bubble,
: >but there are a lot of philanthropic Jews, a lot of industrious
: >blacks, a lot of non-alcoholic Irish, a lot of freespending Scots,
: >a lot of non-bigoted Southerners.
:
: [Miscellaneous flames deleted.]
:
: Your brand of freedom seems to be freedom to do what
: Jeff Daiell finds acceptable, freedom to say what Jeff
: Daiell finds acceptable, freedom to agree with Jeff
: Daiell's Weltanschauung.

Mr. Clark,

You owe Mr. Daiell an apology. And me too, for butting into our
discussion with a wholly unnecessary flame. We have been having a
more-or-less rational discussion of *one* point: whether the use of
stereotypes in jokes makes them racist.

It has not been a point of discussion as to whether such jokes should
be censored. Mr. Daiell and I both agree on this point: racist or
not, censorship of jokes is wrong.

The point of disagreement is that I hold that stereotypes are
occasionally useful, so long as we keep in mind that stereotypes are
not applicable to all (or even any) members of the stereotyped group.
Mr. Daiell holds the view that stereotypes are necessarily
collectivist. Were I to agree with him, I'd also agree that one
shouldn't use stereotypes.

And I'd still agree with him that censorship of them is wrong.

---
Bill                            { uunet | novavax } !twwells!bill
(BTW, I'm may be looking for a new job sometime in the next few
months.  If you know of a good one where I can be based in South
Florida do send me e-mail.)