Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!lll-winken!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Used DPAINT [I & II] for sale Message-ID: <17146@cup.portal.com> Date: 14 Apr 89 07:40:52 GMT References: <16386@oberon.USC.EDU> <6789@ecsvax.UUCP> <16404@oberon.USC.EDU> <16958@cup.portal.com> <16459@oberon.USC.EDU> <17050@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 91 Putting aside the murkiness arising from licensing, this discussion has shown two polarized viewpoints of the matter concerning selling off "old" versions of upgraded software. The majority feels it's OK per: 1) comments here in the newsgroup, 2) emailings I've received (7: with 5 siding with Marco and two with me), and 3) a discussion at lunch today with some 20 people, in which 18 sided with Marco's viewpoint and two with mine. I still feel people are avoiding (or evading :-) the issues of: 1) versions of software vs. completely different products. I consider: { DPaint-I, DPaint-II, DPaint-III }, and { A-Talk, A-Talk-Plus, A-Talk-III } to be different versions of the same (respective) product, 2) the courtesy of a deeply-discounted upgrade to a newer version offered to earlier purchasers ONLY, 3) intellectual property vs. real property, and 4) economics (read: actionable (legal) redress). One person commented that one could construe the unfettered selling of "old" software copies to be a marketing ploy. [But see the scenarios below] Another person considers the "purchase" to be a "use permit" (an implied license). If a software vendor chooses to NOT defend his rights, tough. [The law does protect the rights of even those who might be unaware of their rights (figure THAT one out! :-) ] Answering another person: no, I'm not a lawyer, but I've pursued and won all (3) actions I've initiated, and with my software sales exceeding 9 figures I'm not exactly a "babe in the woods." :-) Marco's position with respect to his own software (the A-Talk series of comm programs) amazed me; see below for my scenarios which I leave for you to judge for yourself. I was also amazed last year when I proposed having an expert talk at BADGE concerning software marketing, ethics, and business, and NO ONE in attendance expressed any interest. I can understand that attitude for people employed at large software shops, but what of the one- and two-person shops? Well, I've since been informed that such courses are available as extension courses here in California (in case anyone IS interested). In closing, I'd like to thank everyone who contributed both publicly and privately to this discussion; it HAS been informative and enlightening. ==================== SCENARIO 1: Deluxe Paint (Electronic Arts publisher, Dan Silva author) DPaint-I DPaint-II DPaint-III TOTAL PAID : LIST $80 : $80 $30 : $120 $50 : $150 $160 : $350 SOLD OFF AT: 30 50 --- - 80 : - 80 NET $OUTLAY: $80 : $270 -------------------- "PAID : LIST" is the " : " "SOLD OFF AT" is the offering price in the original message. "NET $OUTLAY" is the - Thus, one has had the use of DPaint (I and II) for several years, and now has DPaint-III for a total multi-year cash outlay of only $80 (after selling off the old copies of DPaint-I and -II). Sounds like a good deal to me and a bad deal for EA. :-) ==================== SCENARIO 2: A-Talk (Felsina Software, Marco Papa proprietor and author) A-Talk A-Talk-PLUS A-Talk III TOTAL PAID : LIST $60 : $60 $20 : $75-85 $25 : $75-100 $105 : $210 - 245 SOLD OFF AT: 30 40 --- - 70 : - 70 NET $OUTLAY: $35 : $140 - 175 -------------------- Thus, one has had the use of A-Talk (1.0 and PLUS) for several years, and now has A-Talk-III for a total multi-year cash outlay of only $35 (after selling off the old copies of A-Talk). Sounds like a good deal to me and a bad deal for Felsina Software. ==================== Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]