Xref: utzoo news.groups:8863 news.admin:5566 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!carpet!bill From: bill@carpet.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin Subject: Re: OFFICIAL Guidelines (2nd try) Message-ID: <190@carpet.WLK.COM> Date: 10 Apr 89 23:23:59 GMT References: <2961@ncar.ucar.edu> <13561@steinmetz.ge.com> Reply-To: bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) Followup-To: news.groups Distribution: na Organization: W.L. Kennedy Jr & Associates, Pipe Creek, TX Lines: 64 >In article <2961@ncar.ucar.edu> woods@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Greg Woods) writes: > >| 4) ONLY votes MAILED to the vote-taker will count. Votes posted to the net [ more about how votes would & wouldn't count ...] In article <13561@steinmetz.ge.com> davidsen@crdos1 (bill davidsen) writes: > As I have mentioned before, in the cause of reducing the cost to the >net *any* list which has some number of readers (200 maybe) should be >allowed to become a group by having the moderator post the names of the >readers as yes votes. But only if the majority of the mailing list agrees and only if they agree to have their names posted as yes votes. The mailing list I coordinate has soundly defeated every overture I have made about becoming a news group. >I don't believe that "it's more convenient by >mail" is a reason to keep sending that many copies, and I don't think >the argument of "adequate coverage in other groups" should be allowed >to add to the phone bills of the backbone sites, if there are N people >who feel that more coverage is needed. I agree that news is far more efficient than mail. There are still some reasons more compelling than convenience for staying a mailing list. I tried to overcome one of them (no new access) by agreeing to continue to mail to those addressees. That only partially defused the objections. Our list engages in correspondence that would be contrued as blatant commercialism by the net at large. We even encourage it because it gives them an opportunity to get good used equipment from a source better known than Joe I. Poster and we've been able to use our numbers to arrange very attractive prices for a group buy ($25 FOB dest for a $65 FOB ship point manual). I'll repeat my agreement with Bill that the news software is lots more efficient and cost effective to reach a lot of people, but in addition to what I've cited, there are other "privacy" issues. If a mailing list was of special interest to German culture, it might choose to conduct itself in German, try that on the net! In the case of the list I coordinate we deal in hot gossip (not often, but always hot) that the contributors would not send in if they felt that distribution was wider spread. In support of Bill's point, I think that if the required number of mailing list members agree to a news group, I think the voting should be waived. The issue of a choice of moderator is another question. It would appear obvious that the existing mailing list coordinator would be the choice for moderator, but they might not want it. Bill and Paul Vixie would do a good job moderating a news group based on what I've read on their mailing lists, but I'd be a lousy moderator based on what I let cross through mine. Admittedly, the mailing list members moderate themselves since I don't, but that would not be the case if it was opened up to the net at large. Finally (mercifully!), does it make any sense to require that a mailing list be in existance for some period of time before being eligible to convert? I'm thinking about that list that Karl Kleinpaste started (and scuttled when it became noisy and unwieldy) as a news admin only alternative to news.admin. It grew to some large number of people but had to be dismantled when it didn't serve its intended purpose. It wasn't Karl's fault, but was an example of a pile of people that grew (and dissolved) quickly. -- Bill Kennedy Internet: bill@ssbn.WLK.COM Usenet: {texbell,att,killer,sun!daver,cs.utexas.edu}!ssbn!bill