Xref: utzoo sci.bio:1966 talk.origins:4838
Path: utzoo!censor!jeff
From: jeff@censor.UUCP (Jeff Hunter)
Newsgroups: sci.bio,talk.origins
Subject: Re: The birds and the beaks
Summary: boids boids boids
Keywords: evolution, birds, beaks
Message-ID: <471@censor.UUCP>
Date: 5 Apr 89 00:09:07 GMT
References: <404@censor.UUCP> <27216@apple.Apple.COM> <464@corpane.UUCP> <28330@apple.Apple.COM>
Organization: Bell Canada, Business Development, Toronto
Lines: 34

In article <28330@apple.Apple.COM>, sabol@Apple.COM (Bryan Sabol) writes:
> In article <454@censor.UUCP> jeff@censor.UUCP (Jeff Hunter) writes:
> >So I'm going to repeat my guess that early birds ate nuts (and needed 
> >a lightweight nutcracker, and were overwhemingly successful).
> 
> 	I think we've got a problem with that idea:  if I remember
> correctly, we both agreed that _archeopteryx_ is considered to be the
> first/ancestoral bird, yet its diet was small animals and insects.  I'm
> pretty sure that its diet wasn't vegetarian.
> 	I do agree that birds were successful;  seeing their numbers and
> diversity 150 million years later is testimony to that.  My question is
> though, how does the success of birds relate to beaks/wings?  I lost the
> point of your aforenoted statement somewhere.

	Sure. I'll try to make it clearer.
- bats eat soft stuff therefore bats can get away with small sharp teeth,
    and small lightweight jaws
- if bats had to eat something that required a heavier jaw they'd either
    a) become flightless or b) develop beaks (or c) starve).

- archeopteryx ate soft stuff (insects & small animals). It had small
    sharp teeth.
- ALL modern birds have beaks

- therefore I conclude (and I know it's tenuous) that some near descendants
    of archeopteryx ate something that needed a strong jaw (my guess "nuts").
    They developed beaks. They then were successful enough to overwhelm all
    the (left-over) toothed birds.

-- 
      ___   __   __   {utzoo,lsuc}!censor!jeff  (416-595-2705)
      /    / /) /  )     -- my opinions --
    -/ _ -/-   /-     No one born with a mouth and a need is innocent. 
 (__/ (/_/   _/_                                   Greg Bear