Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!ucsd!cogsci!meadors
From: meadors@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Tony Meadors)
Newsgroups: comp.cog-eng
Subject: Re: Handedness
Keywords: handedness
Message-ID: <738@cogsci.ucsd.EDU>
Date: 25 Apr 89 21:07:45 GMT
References: <0ejKI2d3Uw1010VXzqU@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> <1256@mmm.UUCP> <5463@cs.Buffalo.EDU>
Reply-To: meadors@cogsci.UUCP (Tony Meadors)
Distribution: na
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Institute for Cognitive Science
Lines: 49

In article <5463@cs.Buffalo.EDU> dmark@sunybcs.UUCP (David Mark) writes:
>In article <1256@mmm.UUCP> cipher@mmm.UUCP (Andre Guirard) writes:
>>In article <338@lloyd.camex.uucp>,kent@lloyd.camex.uucp (Kent Borg) writes:
>>> did humans have any need for the abstract concepts of left and right?
>>
>>I'm not at all convinced that the concept of 
>>left and right is very abstract.
>>This suggests an interesting experiment... using various animals,
>>test to see which ones can be trained to distinguish between left
>>and right.  If a dog can understand the concept, it's probably not too
>>abstract.
>
>I talked to a sheepdog owner/trainer about this very point.  She said that
>they can train a dog to circle clockwise or counterclockwise around the
>sheep, on symbolic command (whistle sequences, or words).  Apparently, the
>dogs have a 'natural' tendency to stay opposite their master (surrogate
>alpha-male?) when trying to control domestic (surrogate prey?) animals.
>So, if the trainer moves clockwise, so will the dog, and if they move
>counter clockwise, the dog does too.  So, they induce the dogs behavior and 
>give the associated command, until they learn the command.
>David Mark, Geography
>dmark@cs.buffalo.edu


  Nice example David. But I can't help think that animals circling
on command "to their left" vs. "to their right" is possibly much
different than possessing the "concept of handedness" or even
"left vs right." Afterall, circling is for the sheepdog but a
variation upon a well-practiced motor theme. What an animal "does"
can be misleading of what it "knows."


  The TRANSFER of concept usage between situations is one 
method of testing whether an animal "really" has grasped 
a particular notion. For example, if some animal (a sheepdog
let's say) could be shown to, upon command, always select from
among alternatives the left or right one; whether using his legs
to pursue, his paw to strike, or mouth to grab; and more importantly,
could do so to novel sets of items, using novel motor patterns;
THEN, I for one would be strongly persuaded that it UNDERSTOOD  
the opposing concepts of left and right.



just a note,

tonyM