Path: utzoo!dptcdc!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!killer!jolnet!acarter From: acarter@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Alfonso Carter) Newsgroups: comp.os.misc Subject: Re: A call for votes! Message-ID: <509@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> Date: 17 Apr 89 21:31:56 GMT References: <480@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> <453@sequoia.UUCP> Reply-To: acarter@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Alfonso Carter) Distribution: usa Organization: Jolnet, Public Access Unix, Orland Park (Joliet), Ill. Lines: 126 From: > article 913 in comp.os.misc: > from: dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) > Subject: Re: A call for votes! > Summary: This isn't even close to how you do it... > Message-ID: <453@sequoia.UUCP> > Date: 15 Apr 89 14:42:24 GMT > References: <480@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> > Reply-To: dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) > Distribution: usa > Organization: Home for Recalcitrant Hackers > First, you haven't shown anything resembling a need for the 'conference' (it's > called a 'newsgroup' usually). As a matter of fact, you present a wonderful > case for why it SHOULD NOT be a newsgroup with your own statement about 'a mere > post or two in comp.os.misc.' The point of newsgroups is to separate out > specific topics that have regularly shown enough interest to justify their > own namespace, not just because you would LIKE to see more postings. This > is especially true in the comp groups. Opinion [Personal]: So what if he said conference? Cardinal sin to you I would guess. So what if there have been no posts? Since there is no newgroup for it, where would one post it? Not in here. You'd yell and scream about it since you obviously don't like PRIMOS. With people who treat newgroups like the bible, you'd get mad becuase the posted about PRIMOS, in comp.os.misc, and say it belonged in comp.os.primos if there was one, since there isn't you would say such articles shouldn't be posted. > You seem to be making the case that PRIMOS should have its own place to get > posts based on your perception that its an important operating system, and > not based at all on any indication of activity ON USENET regarding it. This > is backwards, if there is expressed need shown by number of postings in a > subject, THEN is when you try to get a newsgroup - you don't try to get a > newsgroup (especially a comp newsgroup) for something no one shows any real > interest it. Give us all a break. If there is reason for a newsgroup, there should be one. If you don't want it, keep it out of your .newsrc and don't carry the group on your computer. Just because there isn't activity YET in your eyes on the USENET does NOT mean that on the regular BBS side there isn't. > Second, you don't start collecting votes out of the blue. Although there are > always minor variances, the procedure is basically to first call for discussion > by posting to groups where there has appeared to be an interested group and > to redirect followups and further discussion to news.groups. Granted, when > you start out with no groups that show a significant amount of interest it's > gonna be hard, but that should show something in itself :-). After a minimum > discussion of two weeks in news.groups, a call for votes is appropriate, with > the votes for and against being collected by someone at a reasonably well > connected site. Currently it takes a count of 100 MORE yes votes than no votes > for a group. Ok. Please outline the procedure so you won't go pointing out technicali- ties in the future. Post it in here [comp.os.misc] so we ALL can see it. I have not seen any rules about creating a newsgroup for sometime [if there was one, you'll have to excuse me for not reading EVERY article in EVERY newsgroup]. > Personal Opinion: PRIMOS is of, at best, peripheral interest to the vast > majority of net.folks. It only runs on Prime machines, which are not exactly > the most widely used machines around, and it would seem that that trend is > increasing. Prime machines themselves are not compatable with much or anything > else, and often with each other (at the software level). It would seem that > Prime is fairly aware of this, given their recent diversification into more > widely accepted areas, like 386 Unix boxes and CADD systems. How much of the > net community uses PRIMOS though is probably pretty low. True, it only runs on Prime Machines. They are pretty compatible at the software level. Maybe you've written a program for Unix and tried to compile it on a PRIME? Second, I have seen some very LARGE PrimOS Nets, Larger than most Unix-Ethernet Linked ones. They are still in BIG use. Where have you been? GTE Telenet uses them ALOT. So what if they aren't on the USENET. Does that mean they don't exist or something?? > [prefix above] In the last couple of [suffix below] > years I don't recall seeing anyone discuss putting anything like rn or notes > or news on a PRIME running PRIMOS - although with the diversity of folks we > have, there's bound to be someone that attempted it somewhere out of shear > perversity. You always this tolerant about articles posted about machines that you don't like? It is like me saying, "Messages Posted about are perverted because I have only seen a very few." > We've had several PRIME machines where I work. Right now, one of the things > I'm really looking forward to is our scheduled deinstall of the last one. > If it doesn't hang at least once a week we know no one has logged it. Disks > seem to get clobbered about that often on average too. Trying to teach a > new user anything like an underlying structure or philosophy of the system > so that they can use it effectively is a real exercise in frustration. Its obvious you don't like PRIMOS, and Congradulations. You're being very diplomatic about it. Proper Maintenance would solve your problems. Also, It helps to TRY to work with a computer instead of saying, "It hangs up too much. I don't like it." and then giving up. That is really very bad. It is called ignorance. I work with computers/OSs I don't like, but not against them. BIG difference. > If you gather from the above I don't think much of PRIME, you're pretty much > on the right track. etc.> If you also gather that I don't think there's a real audience for a > group specifically for PRIMOS on Usenet, you are also correct. However, if > you think those two opinions are inextricably linked, you are incorrect. That is VERY shady. They are linked. And since you don't like it, you will certainly vote no for that very reason. As stated above, if it starts, keep it out of your .newsrc. Since you don't like PRIMOS there is no point in arguing. You'll never be convinced that most of your statments about them are incorrect, or correct becuase of some form of negligence and spite. > Why don't you try FIRST to get on the distribution list, if such a critter > exists, instead of starting first with the suggestion that several thousand > sites start carrying a group that's shown basically no need to exist? Man! Another Cardinal Sin! He should have known there is a list since he likes the OS so much! I guess its up to you to let us know about everything. I think I'll mail you when I need to know a procedure! Besides, should he have to get on a list!? No. So, first why don't YOU stick to something you know, and stop showing total anti-PRIMOS attitudes. Get it over with. Go ahead and Vote no now, instead of arguing then voting no. That's insane.