Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!leah!bingvaxu!sunybcs!rutgers!att!cbnews!military@att.att.com From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: USS Iowa explosion Message-ID: <5789@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 21 Apr 89 03:28:17 GMT Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Lines: 81 Approved: military@att.att.com From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker) >i'm sure i won't be the first to do so... but i question the reason >that Ronnie commissioned those ancient battleships. gunboat diplomacy >is one thing -- but there are problems when the guns have to be used, >especially if they aren't accurate or safe. I can say that these are far and away the best 16" guns in service in the world; that, because they're (to my knowledge) the *only* 16" guns... hence, reason one: added capability. In support of, say a Marine beachead, these weapons can be devastating; ask the Japanese. Further, you must understand that, shortly after WWII, they stopped putting armor on ships, for a variety of reasons. In response, modern antiship weapons (such as Exocet) aren't designed to defeat armored targets. Thus, the Iowa is extremely survivable in the modern battlefield; its only real concerns are submarines and nuclear warheads exploded in close proximity. The guns are, in fact, rather accurate; consider that they can hit a moving ship at ranges approaching 25 miles (*). No, you're not going to be able to drop each shell within 10 feet of desired point of impact, but war can get messy that way. Suffice that they are sufficiently accurate for their intended use. (*) Understand that, at sea, that's the *horizon* As for safety; consider that four Iowa-class battleships (Iowa, New Jersey, Wisconsin, and Missouri) were built; between them, they accumulated (by my rough calculations) some 51 ship-years of service time, not counting time decommissioned, up to and including the Vietnam War. Add to that the time accumulated since their reactivation by Reagan (I'm estimating another 8 or nine ship-years); and in all that time, this is the first such accident (to my knowledge). Similar accidents have occured in other ships; for example, a turret explosion in a US Heavy Cruiser post WWII; a massive fire aboard a US carrier (discussed here recently; Forrestal, wasn't it ?)... accidents happen. If you want to consider the good design of these ships, consider that the main powder magazines, sited directly under the turret which exploded (but protected by complicated systems for just such an occurence) did *not* ignite; if they had, the ship would have likely sunk. >is the Iowa of the same class as the New Jersey, the ship which >shelled Beirut? are the 16 inch guns the same type which shelled >Beirut? i believe that these guns are *very* inaccurate, and >that many houses and people were destroyed in Beirut arbitrarily. Yes, they are sister ships, practically identical. As I said, you can't drop the shells on a dime; further, you have to realize the innacuracy introduced by the spotter who's calling in the target. Accurate spotting requires skill and experience (spotters are used when the ship cannot see the target because of intervening terrain. Finally, don't forget that the shells weigh 2700 pounds, a large portion of which is explosive filling; the blast radius is quite large. >aren't there modern battleship guns which are more accurate and >perhaps safer to operate than the old style 16 inchers? when it >is necessary to shell real targets, shouldn't the most accurate guns >be used? 8-) The only battleship completed after the Iowas was HMS Vanguard, long since scrapped. There *are* no modern battleships. There are projects under way to make the 16"/50's more accurate weapons; this is done by using reduced caliber rounds (I've heard of 13" shells, with sabots to make them fit the 16" tube) which use modern terminal guidance, such as laser homing. An additional benefit is increased range (I've heard 35 miles, but that's very unofficial). Of course, you sacrifice explosive filling with the smaller shells. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Thacker moderator, sci.military military@att.att.com (614) 860-5294 "War is a matter of vital importance to the State; the province of life or death; the road to survival or ruin. It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied." - Sun Tzu