Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!pasteur!ucbvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!unmvax!deimos.cis.ksu.edu!rutgers!att!cbnews!djm@etive.edinburgh.ac.uk From: djm@etive.edinburgh.ac.uk (D Murphy) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Ship armor Message-ID: <5981@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 27 Apr 89 03:10:50 GMT References: <5929@cbnews.ATT.COM> Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Organization: Edinburgh University Computer Services Lines: 69 Approved: military@att.att.com From: D Murphy In article <5929@cbnews.ATT.COM> military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker) writes: > > >In the battle of Jutland (WWI's decisive naval battle), 3 British >battlecruiser (Invincible, Indefatigable, and Queen Mary) received hits >from their German counterparts (Lutzow, Derfflinger, Von der Tann, and >Seydlitz) and blew up with massive loss of life. The German ships fared >better; Seydlitz, for example, took some 21 heavy shell hits and >torpedoes, suffered two turrets burned out, shipped 5300 tons of water, >and still returned home under her own power, to be repaired and returned >to service. Derfflinger took slightly more moderate damage, while Lutzow >had to be scuttled while returning home, having taken the same number of >hits. > >Events clearly indicated that speed did not make up for protection. >I can't help but think that this lesson is still quite appropriate >in the modern battlefield where missiles can be fired from over the horizon >and accurately seek out even an evasive target; and one such hit can >disable the target (at least, render it ineffective for combat). > Yes, but I recall that there were problems with the storage of munitions in the magazines (according to a TV documentary in the UK a few years ago). Apparently what happened was that the propellant was kept in bags which had the bag `primer' covered by a paper strip in storage - this was supposed to be removed during loading so that the thing would work when it was fired. To increase reload speed some of these tags had been removed - creating a severe fire hazard in the magazines and causing some of the ships to blow up after receiving minor hits - hence "There's something wrong with our bloody ships today". [mod.note: True. Events at Jutland led to major redesign of the battlecruisers then building, and of warships in general, in the British fleet. In particular, new antiflash systems were installed to prevent turret fires from quickly spreading to the magazines. Still, HMS Hood, completed well after Jutland, suffered the same fate. - Bill ] In the battle of the Falkland Islands (the WWI one) British battlecruisers caught (I think) 3 German cruisers (they'd been caught away from home at the start of the war and were engaged on commerce raiding) and blew them out of the water before the Germans could fire back. [mod.note: Never a fair fight, of course... and I believe the Germans *did* fire back; Breyer lists Invincible as taking some 23 hits in that action. Of course, the small German guns couldn't penetrate even battlecruiser armor at long ranges. - Bill ] Murff.... JANET: djm@uk.ac.ed.etive Internet: djm%ed.etive@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Murff@uk.ac.ed.emas-a Murff%ed.emas-a@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk trinity@uk.ac.ed.cs.tardis trinity%ed.cs.tardis@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk D.J. Murphy Chemistry Dept. Univ. of Edinburgh "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying." Woody Allen