Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!uxc!iuvax!rutgers!att!homxb!genesis!odyssey!gls
From: gls@odyssey.ATT.COM (g.l.sicherman)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: software engineers
Message-ID: <855@odyssey.ATT.COM>
Date: 2 May 89 19:49:18 GMT
References: <854@odyssey.ATT.COM>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, West Long Branch, NJ
Lines: 38

Dr Hubert Matthews at CERNvax has privately sent me the following note.
Since there's nothing here that calls for privacy (is there ever?), I'm
restoring the discussion to the public.

> From uunet.UU.NET!mcvax!cernvax!hjm Tue May  2 18:43:36 +0200 1989 
> 	
> 90%?  What sort of programmers do you know?  Perhaps the first thing
> they should do is learn to write better code in the first place and
> reduce that to 50%, or preferably a lot less.  Try a course in formal
> methods and specifications and see if that doesn't improve things.
> Also, try teaching programmers about program testing; if you know the
> most common ways that programs fail, then you can avoid those pitfalls
> from the start.
> 
> I'm not a CS type.  I happen to know about such things as formal
> methods, pre- and post-conditions and loop invariants &c., formal
> specifications and the like.  I also know how to write the most
> gawd-awful twisted assembler and get the last drop of performance out
> of the machine.  I'm an engineer by trade and by training - that's why
> I carry the title of Doctor with pride.
> 
> So, get some better programmers, or train your existing ones.

Thanks for your note.  Indeed, the programmers on my project probably
don't spend more than 50% of their time testing and debugging.  It
depends on where we stand in the development cycle.

I do not share your faith in formal methods or methodologies.  To me,
the work of programming consists of weaving order with chaos.  The amount
of work to be done is a constant.  No amount of external organization
or systematic analysis will reduce the need for application and holistic
attention, because chaos is unsystematic.  The act of programming is a
metaphor for the act of living.

Still, I wouldn't mind having a better language to code in...!
-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
gls@odyssey.att.COM