Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!looking!brad From: brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) Newsgroups: news.admin Subject: List of sites with broken Followup (No References) Software Message-ID: <3222@looking.UUCP> Date: 9 May 89 18:50:17 GMT Organization: Looking Glass Software, Waterloo Ont. Lines: 624 Recently I wrote some software to make use of the References line in news articles. Much to my dismay, I found that most articles don't have a valid References: line! The reason is a small number of sites with broken posting programs that don't include a References: line on followups. I scanned 65,000 news articles, and 3700 of them matched this expression: if( !followup && subject has "^re:" ) -- bad article -- (The subject starts with re: but there is no References: line) Now only 5%, that's not so bad, right? Wrong. Every followup to one of these bad articles ALSO has a broken reference chain, and is not linked to the parent. All it takes is just a few sites to make the References: line useless. We have been trying to get that line to be usable for years, but it will never be unless we insist that people follow the RFC1036 News Article format. I propose we give these sites a while to clean up their act. Then we should install an automatic program at some site. This program should, when it detects an article matching the above pattern, send a mail message to the postmaster or usenet user at the poster's domain and the sender's domain (if different) informing them of the bug in their program and asking them to fix it. Annoying? Perhaps. What you do on your own site, and what readers you run are your own business. But what you POST has to follow the standards, and that's everybody's business. If we can't fix this problem, we will just have to abandon the References: line and all the useful things that can be done with it. (Like USENET hypertext threads etc.) I have the full details on sender/from pairs for these bad articles. That's too much to post, so I will just list the offending Sender: and From: line sites below, with the counts of bad articles. One clear problem is messages from Fidonet and some BITNET relays. For Unix sites, working postnews software is available now, for free. (If your count is very small compared to your news output, it may be a local bug for some types of posting, or it may be users who simply typed in 're:' in a manual subject line.) 65450 valid articles, 3696 invalid articles Here are the offending sites found in 'Sender:' lines: 811 rice.edu 513 ucbvax.berkeley.edu 178 andrew.cmu.edu 70 orbit.uucp 55 bunker.uucp 53 gryphon.com 53 dogie.macc.wisc.edu 46 watmath.waterloo.edu 46 cbnews.att.com 44 vector.dallas.tx.us 44 lindy.stanford.edu 43 tank.uchicago.edu 43 canremote.uucp 36 tut.cis.ohio-state.edu 34 ames.arc.nasa.gov 30 udel.edu 30 crash.cts.com 29 rpi.edu 29 hubcap.clemson.edu 27 eddie.mit.edu 26 geneva.rutgers.edu 26 bloom-beacon.mit.edu 26 bbn.com 25 sei.cmu.edu 23 sun.eng.sun.com 23 adm.brl.mil 21 ucdavis.ucdavis.edu 20 yale.uucp 20 stjhmc.fidonet.org 20 agate.berkeley.edu 19 watdragon.waterloo.edu 18 van-bc.uucp 18 pyramid.pyramid.com 18 iuvax.cs.indiana.edu 17 mamab.fidonet.org 15 aber-cs.uucp 14 jumbo.dec.com 14 eos.uucp 13 stiatl.uucp 13 cs.ucla.edu 13 arizona.edu 12 unix.sri.com 11 ruby.dec.com 11 orion.cf.uci.edu 10 sdcsvax.ucsd.edu 10 psuvm.bitnet 10 pacbell.com 10 isishq.fidonet.org 10 heimat.uucp 10 b.gp.cs.cmu.edu 9 yvax.byu.edu 9 saturn.ucsc.edu 9 rutgers.rutgers.edu 9 oxy.edu 9 egvideo.uucp 9 alice.uucp 8 watcgl.waterloo.edu 8 uswat.uucp 8 tekgvs.labs.tek.com 8 psuarlc.bitnet 8 polya.stanford.edu 8 mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us 8 garth.uucp 8 fidogate.fidonet.org 8 ai.toronto.edu 7 tekred.cna.tek.com 7 sequent.uucp 7 rust.dec.com 7 ncoast.uucp 7 mindlink.uucp 7 cs.utexas.edu 7 brunix.uucp 6 spice.cs.cmu.edu 6 spdcc.com 6 portia.stanford.edu 6 paris.ics.uci.edu 6 nmtsun.nmt.edu 6 net.bio.net 6 mountn.dec.com 6 mcastl.fidonet.org 6 ihlpa.att.com 6 hcx1.ssd.harris.com 6 apollo.com 5 vax1.tcd.ie 5 usc.edu 5 uhura.cc.rochester.edu 5 twwells.uucp 5 ssc-vax.uucp 5 solbourne.com 5 pasteur.berkeley.edu 5 orchid.waterloo.edu 5 nunki.usc.edu 5 netnews.upenn.edu 5 mitisft.convergent.com 5 mathcs.emory.edu 5 littlei.uucp 5 ihlpf.att.com 5 ibmpcug.uucp 5 gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca 5 gollum.uucp 5 ecsvax.uucp 5 dartvax.dartmouth.edu 5 cunyvm.cuny.edu 5 cs.cmu.edu 5 cmhgate.fidonet.org 5 barilvm.bitnet 4 zodiac.uucp 4 wpi.wpi.edu 4 vicorp.uucp 4 uxe.cso.uiuc.edu 4 uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 4 ux1.cso.uiuc.edu 4 sun.soe.clarkson.edu 4 stag.uucp 4 serene.uucp 4 sbsvax.uucp 4 rb-dc1.uucp 4 raybed2.uucp 4 psuecl.bitnet 4 omepd.uucp 4 ncsuvx.ncsu.edu 4 mailcom.fidonet.org 4 m.cs.uiuc.edu 4 linus.uucp 4 leah.albany.edu 4 lafcol.uucp 4 jsheese.fidonet.org 4 jarthur.claremont.edu 4 hogbbs.fidonet.org 4 hannah.dec.com 4 csli.stanford.edu 4 cs.swarthmore.edu 4 computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk 4 cisunx.uucp 4 chris 4 cbnewsl.att.com 4 brains.uucp 4 bmug.fidonet.org 4 apple.com 4 amelia.nas.nasa.gov 3 vaxa.uwa.oz 3 uxf.cso.uiuc.edu 3 uwovax.uwo.ca 3 uvm-gen.uucp 3 usl-pc.usl.edu 3 sgi.sgi.com 3 quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu 3 psych.stanford.edu 3 pbseps.uucp 3 otter.hpl.hp.com 3 nmsu.edu 3 munsell.uucp 3 muadib.fidonet.org 3 ms.uky.edu 3 mips.com 3 mas.uucp 3 lucid.com 3 leadsv.uucp 3 kuhub.cc.ukans.edu 3 isl.stanford.edu 3 ihuxz.att.com 3 hwlab.columbia.ncr.com 3 hub.ucsb.edu 3 hal.uucp 3 gssc.uucp 3 fas.ri.cmu.edu 3 discg1.uucp 3 cs.rochester.edu 3 cs.rit.edu 3 cps3xx.uucp 3 caen.engin.umich.edu 3 busker.fidonet.org 3 bigq.dec.com 3 batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu 3 aplcomm.jhuapl.edu 3 ? 2 yunccn.uucp 2 white.toronto.edu 2 wheaton.uucp 2 vi.ri.cmu.edu 2 versatc.uucp 2 vax1.acs.udel.edu 2 uts.amdahl.com 2 ut-emx.uucp 2 urartu.uucp 2 uklirb.uucp 2 tmsoft.uucp 2 think.uucp 2 telesoft.uucp 2 tekcrl.labs.tek.com 2 taux01.uucp 2 swrinde.nde.swri.edu 2 swan.ulowell.edu 2 stsci.edu 2 srhqla.uucp 2 spool.cs.wisc.edu 2 skivs.uucp 2 servax0.essex.ac.uk 2 sdsu.uucp 2 sdcc15.ucsd.edu 2 sam.cs.cmu.edu 2 quintus.uucp 2 pucc.princeton.edu 2 phoenix.princeton.edu 2 ntvax.uucp 2 ns.network.com 2 ncsuvm.bitnet 2 nadc.arpa 2 mva.cs.liv.ac.uk 2 munnari.oz 2 mit-amt 2 mimsy.uucp 2 metnet.fidonet.org 2 mcnc.org 2 marob.masa.com 2 maine.bitnet 2 madnix.uucp 2 lll-lcc.uucp 2 lerami.uucp 2 laic.uucp 2 insight 2 imspw6.uucp 2 imagen.uucp 2 ihlpb.att.com 2 iesd.dk 2 hpcvlx.hp.com 2 hpctdke.hp.com 2 hound.uucp 2 holin.att.com 2 gwusun.gwu.edu 2 godot.radonc.unc.edu 2 ginosko.samsung.com 2 garcon.cso.uiuc.edu 2 eva.slu.se 2 enea.se 2 druco.att.com 2 dowjone.uucp 2 dayton.uucp 2 cybaswan.uucp 2 cunyvm.bitnet 2 csuf3b.uucp 2 cit-vax.caltech.edu 2 cg-atla.uucp 2 carroll1.uucp 2 buengc.bu.edu 2 boulder.colorado.edu 2 blake.acs.washington.edu 2 bigtime.fidonet.org 2 berlioz 2 axion.bt.co.uk 2 ardec.arpa 2 aipna.ed.ac.uk 2 ai.utoronto.ca 2 adobe.com 1 zeus.unl.edu 1 zehntel.uucp 1 zaphod.ncsa.uiuc.edu 1 yamnet.uucp 1 xyzzy.uucp 1 xn.ll.mit.edu 1 wooglin.scc.com 1 wiley.uucp 1 watvlsi.waterloo.edu 1 watrose.uucp 1 water.waterloo.edu 1 watarts.waterloo.edu 1 wasatch.utah.edu 1 warwick.uucp 1 warwick.ac.uk 1 wacsvax.oz 1 venera.isi.edu 1 vax5.cit.cornell.edu 1 vax1.cc.lehigh.edu 1 uxh.cso.uiuc.edu 1 uxg.cso.uiuc.edu 1 utstat.uucp 1 utastro.uucp 1 urchin.fidonet.org 1 unmvax.unm.edu 1 unisoft.uucp 1 unify.uucp 1 umn-d-ub.d.umn.edu 1 umn-cs.cs.umn.edu 1 umbc3.umbc.edu 1 ultb.uucp 1 uhnix1.uh.edu 1 uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu 1 ubvax.uucp 1 ubbs-nh.mv.com 1 tut.fi 1 trsvax.uucp 1 thor.acc.stolaf.edu 1 tellab5.tellabs.chi.il.us 1 teksce.sce.tek.com 1 tekno.chalmers.se 1 teklds.cae.tek.com 1 td2cad.intel.com 1 tc.fluke.com 1 tallis.dec.com 1 sybase.sybase.com 1 sunkisd.cs.concordia.ca 1 sun.uucp 1 stellar.uucp 1 star.dec.com 1 sq.com 1 soleil.uucp 1 smoke.brl.mil 1 sjs.sj.ate.slb.com 1 silver.bacs.indiana.edu 1 siemens.siemens.com 1 sas.uucp 1 sarek.uucp 1 sagpd1.uucp 1 s.cs.uiuc.edu 1 rtmvax.uucp 1 robotics.jpl.nasa.gov 1 reed.uucp 1 redsox.bsw.com 1 recondo.uucp 1 randvax.uucp 1 quintro.uucp 1 qucis.queensu.ca 1 pyr.gatech.edu 1 pur-phy 1 polyslo.calpoly.edu 1 polyof.uucp 1 pie1.mach.cs.cmu.edu 1 philabs.philips.com 1 perle.uucp 1 pcsbst.uucp 1 panda.uucp 1 p.cs.uiuc.edu 1 oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu 1 osiris.cso.uiuc.edu 1 orioneb.fidonet.org 1 oresoft.uu.net 1 oregon.uoregon.edu 1 ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu 1 nugipsy.uucp 1 nlm-mcs.arpa 1 netmbx.uucp 1 neoucom.uucp 1 neabbs.uucp 1 ndsuvax.uucp 1 ncr-sd.sandiego.ncr.com 1 ncis.tis.llnl.gov 1 ncelvax.uucp 1 naucse.uucp 1 nancy.uucp 1 mtunf.att.com 1 mtunb.att.com 1 mtgzz.att.com 1 mitvma.mit.edu 1 mit-caf.mit.edu 1 mipos3.intel.com 1 metapsy.uucp 1 mentor.cc.purdue.edu 1 medsoft.uucp 1 mcdurb.urbana.gould.com 1 masscomp.uucp 1 m2xenix.uucp 1 lzss.att.com 1 logico.uucp 1 lindenthal.cae.ri.cmu.edu 1 lgnp1.ls.com 1 lakeoz.uucp 1 kcdev.uucp 1 julian.uwo.ca 1 jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov 1 jjmhome.uucp 1 jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu 1 jato.jpl.nasa.gov 1 itivax.iti.org 1 ism780c.isc.com 1 inria.inria.fr 1 inmet 1 infmx.uucp 1 imagine.pawl.rpi.edu 1 ima.ima.isc.com 1 iisat.uucp 1 ihlpm.att.com 1 ihlpl.att.com 1 ihlpe.att.com 1 idca.tds.philips.nl 1 i.cc.purdue.edu 1 husc6.harvard.edu 1 hrc63.co.uk 1 hplsla.hp.com 1 hpctdls.hp.com 1 hpcilzb.hp.com 1 hounx.att.com 1 hou2d.att.com 1 hitchrack.stanford.edu 1 helios.ee.lbl.gov 1 hcx1.uucp 1 haddock.ima.isc.com 1 gt-eedsp.uucp 1 granite.dec.com 1 gmu90x.uucp 1 glacier.stanford.edu 1 geovision.uucp 1 genrad.uucp 1 geac.uucp 1 galaxy.rutgers.edu 1 fungus.dec.com 1 fredonia.uucp 1 frame.uucp 1 foil.uucp 1 flatline.uucp 1 felix.uucp 1 f.gp.cs.cmu.edu 1 etive.ed.ac.uk 1 ethz.uucp 1 esquire.uucp 1 elroy.jpl.nasa.gov 1 edsel.uucp 1 ecf.toronto.edu 1 drutx.att.com 1 drd.uucp 1 dialog.uucp 1 dgbt.uucp 1 dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov 1 devildog.uucp 1 deming.dec.com 1 deimos.cis.ksu.edu 1 decwrl.dec.com 1 dcdwest.uucp 1 data-io.com 1 daimi.dk 1 cwjcc.cwru.edu 1 cvman.uucp 1 cup.portal.com 1 ctycal.com 1 csusac.uucp 1 cs.odu.edu 1 cs.helsinki.fi 1 cs.glasgow.ac.uk 1 cosmo.uucp 1 cornell.uucp 1 copper.mdp.tek.com 1 convex.uucp 1 columbia.edu 1 cmx.npac.syr.edu 1 charon.unm.edu 1 cfa.harvard.edu 1 ccnysci.uucp 1 cci632.uucp 1 cbnewsh.att.com 1 cbmvax.uucp 1 cb.ecn.purdue.edu 1 cattell.psych.upenn.edu 1 calgary.uucp 1 cacilj.uucp 1 bucket.uucp 1 bu-cs.bu.edu 1 bsu-cs.bsu.edu 1 brl.mil 1 briarpatch.uucp 1 bourbon.ee.tulane.edu 1 bongo.uucp 1 bgsuvax.uucp 1 beta.lanl.gov 1 bentley.uucp 1 belltec.uucp 1 bdt.uucp 1 bcm.tmc.edu 1 batcave.uucp 1 bally.bally.com 1 babbage.acc.virginia.edu 1 auvax.uucp 1 aucis.uucp 1 astroatc.uucp 1 aramis.rutgers.edu 1 applga.uucp 1 amsoft.uucp 1 americ.uucp 1 alux2.att.com 1 alliant.com 1 alembic.uucp 1 agora.uucp 1 aerospace.aero.org 1 accuvax.nwu.edu.nwu.edu 1 a.lanl.gov Here are the offending sites from 'From:' lines: Only the worst offenders are listed, as there are over 1000 sites in this list. If I get a lot of requests, I will post the whole list that relates Senders to From. 185 andrew.cmu.edu 124 uunet.uu.net 70 pnet51.cts.com 53 vms.macc.wisc.edu 50 sun.com 45 forsythe.stanford.edu 44 trantor.harris-atd.com 43 canremote.uucp 40 gsbacd.uchicago.edu 38 gryphon.com 33 krypton.arc.nasa.gov 32 watmath.waterloo.edu 30 bbn.com 27 pnet01.cts.com 26 venus.ycc.yale.edu 25 sei.cmu.edu 24 xerox.com 24 will johnson 23 nss.cs.ucl.ac.uk 23 gaffa.mit.edu 22 ulkyvx.bitnet 21 cunyvm.cuny.edu 21 cobra.mitre.org 21 athena1.sun.com 20 ames.arc.nasa.gov 19 ucbvax.berkeley.edu 19 iuvax.cs.indiana.edu 17 lpami.wimsey.bc.ca 17 cis.ohio-state.edu 17 castor.ucdavis.edu 16 helios.tn.cornell.edu 15 ruby.dec.com 15 pnet02.cts.com 15 cs.utexas.edu 15 arizona.edu 15 aber-cs.uucp 14 lanl.gov 14 jumbo.dec.com 14 grand.waterloo.edu 14 eos.uucp 13 stiatl.uucp 13 h.gp.cs.cmu.edu 12 wooglin.scc.com 12 sri-nic.arpa 12 central.sun.com 11 watdragon.waterloo.edu 11 shell.uucp 11 psuvm.bitnet 11 postgres.berkeley.edu 11 bu-it.bu.edu 11 ai.toronto.edu 10 wpi.wpi.edu 10 pacbell.com 10 mcc.com 10 heimat.uucp 10 gateway.mitre.org 10 gatech.edu 10 egvideo.uucp 10 beowulf.ucsd.edu 10 b.gp.cs.cmu.edu 10 apollo.com 9 yvax.byu.edu 9 vmsa.cf.uci.edu 9 utorphys.bitnet 9 uhura.cc.rochester.edu 9 rust.dec.com 9 richter.mit.edu 9 pyrps5 9 oxy.edu 9 lnic1.hprc.uh.edu 9 dockmaster.ncsc.mil 9 apple.com 9 alice.uucp 8 vuse.vanderbilt.edu 8 tekgvs.labs.tek.com 8 pyrtech 8 psuarlc.bitnet 8 mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us 8 m.cs.uiuc.edu 8 lafcol.uucp 8 garth.uucp 8 f555.n161.z1.fidonet.org 8 cbnews.att.com 8 brl.mil 8 att.att.com Get with it folks! -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473