Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!lll-lcc!ncis.tis.llnl.gov!mcb
From: mcb@ncis.tis.llnl.gov (Michael C. Berch)
Newsgroups: news.sysadmin
Subject: Re: Size of the Internet vs. UUCP net
Message-ID: <173@ncis.tis.llnl.gov>
Date: 2 May 89 21:16:40 GMT
References: <1989Apr24.203137.5835@utzoo.uucp> <163@ncis.tis.llnl.gov> <655@dtscp1.UUCP>
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore CA
Lines: 50

In article <655@dtscp1.UUCP> scott@dtscp1.UUCP (Scott Barman) writes:
> In <163@ncis.tis.llnl.gov> mcb@ncis.tis.llnl.gov (Michael C. Berch) writes:
> > [...]
> >Contrast this with the estimated size of the UUCP network, which is
> >somewhere around 20,000 (the UUCP Map has about 15,000, right, plus a
> >fudge factor of 33%).  Subtract from that number the sites in the UUCP
> >Network that are also Internet sites or site gateways (that use
> >RFC821/822) and the relative sizes become more clear.
> >
> >Its pioneering history notwithstanding, I believe that in 1989 the
> >original V7 UUCP mail format is really not much more than a footnote.
> 
> So now the 20,000 sites who cannot (for one reason or another) be on
> the Internet are footnotes?  I'd like to thank you for making us
> "feel good" because we do not have the resorces (read: money) to be on
> the Internet!  

Scott, I think you missed the point of the article.  My intent was not
to belittle sites that are not on the Internet; that would be
preposterous and pointless.  The discussion of the size of the
Internet vs. the UUCP net grew out of a discussion of Internet mail
transport and format standards vs. UUCP mail transport and format
standards.  It does not directly depend on who is on the (copnnected)
Internet, but instead on who is using RFC821/822 instead of V7 UNIX
UUCP mail.  The size of the Internet was brought up because I believe
that the number of people using 821/822 dwarfs the number of people
using V7 UUCP mail format by a significant number, probably more than
an order of magnitude.   It is the mail format that is the "footnote"
-- as you would see if you read the article carefully -- NOT the
people who use it.

> Do we, a small company now a division of a larger company
> in *cut-back* mode, want to be on the Internet?  It is entirely possible
> (read: the subject has come up for discussion because I keep bringing
> it up).  But do I want to participate with the elitist @#$%s who have lost
> the initial Usenet spirit of cooperation in a diverse, global community?

Just which "elitist @#$%s" are you referring to?  I don't know why you
have a chip on your shoulder about Internet standards or protocols...
Perhaps we should take this to private e-mail, as Internet vs. "Usenet"
(i.e. UUCP) flame wars don't really belong in news.sysadmin.

> Well, to those I feed news to via a modem and uucp, if we do decided on
> joining the Internet, we will continue to supply this service eventhough
> the elitists don't want us to.

Huh?

Michael C. Berch  
mcb@ncis.llnl.gov / uunet!ncis.llnl.gov!mcb