Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!ncis.tis.llnl.gov!helios.ee.lbl.gov!pasteur!ucbvax!agate!mole.Berkeley.EDU!matloff
From: matloff@mole.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Matloff)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: "Shortage" of American Grad Students
Message-ID: <24489@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 16 May 89 20:27:23 GMT
References: <29168@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Sender: usenet@agate.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: matloff@heather.ucdavis.edu (Norm Matloff)
Organization: EECS, UC Davis
Lines: 64


*********************   NOTE   *************************

Before beginning, I should say "where I am coming from."
I am in charge of Computer Science graduate admissions
here at UC Davis.

Because of this, and because of the fact that this newsgroup
is comp.edu, I will limit my remarks to Computer Science
grad students, though most of my remarks can be extended.

********************************************************

In article <29168@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> tedrick@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes:

>One of the latest schemes for extracting more money from
>the government by public universities is the "shortage of
>American grad students" scam.

As others have pointed out in response to your posting, it's
not a "scam" at all.  The number of Americans who are interested 
in grad school is appallingly small.

>Even statists can't escape economic law. So let's analyze
>the situation.

Whenever I see someone who feels that he/she can explain all
aspects of life through economics, I do get a little suspicious...

>Now enter foreign students into the equation. Americans are
>outnumbered by roughly 20 to 1 in population when compared
>to the rest of the world.

The "rest of the world" is not what's relevant.  The FACT is
that foreign grad students are primarily from only a few
countries, mainly China, Taiwan and India.  And if you then
want to say, "Yes, but the combined size of China and India
is X times that of the U.S.", you would again have a fallacious
argument.  The bulk of the populations in those two countries
don't grow up in an environment that leads to graduate study.

>Since American 
>universities are of higher quality on average than the norm,
>worldwide, foreign students have a strong incentive to come
>here to study. 

Ironically, in spite of your obsession with economics, you've
missed the *real* economic aspect here:  Most foreign students come
here NOT for the quality of the schools, but rather because after
graduation they can be hired by American employers at salaries
which are much higher than what they can get in their home countries.
Since American employment also entails sponsorship for American
immigration, which leads to better economic opportunities for
other members of the foreign students' families, there is indeed
a very strong economic incentive to come to the U.S. for grad
school.  But it's not the incentive of quality of school  --  it's
the incentive of a better economic future.

In fact, if American employers were willing to hire foreigners
**directly** from their home countries, i.e. without first
attending an American university, you'd see a big drop in the
number of foreign grad students too.

   Norm