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From: eliz@cs.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: comp.society.women
Subject: On our own terms
Message-ID: <6970@ecsvax.UUCP>
Date: 9 May 89 14:51:09 GMT
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	From: moe!jeremy@ppgbms (Jeremy Levine)
	Subject: Women competing with men
	Message-ID: <6962@ecsvax.UUCP>
	Date: 8 May 89 19:02:24 GMT

	>>Message-ID: <6938@ecsvax.UUCP>
	>>In the 13th April 1989 edition of "Computing", there is an interview
	>>with Cally Ware, a product manager with the systems house Hoskyns.
	>>An excerpt:-
	>>
	>>"What advice would she give to young women determined to make the most
	>>of a career in ... computing?
	>>"'Enjoy being a woman and don't compete with men on their own terms.'"
	>>Would 	readers agree or disagree?

...
	I think it's trash, "... own terms .." what is this ?? I like to think that


I'm a holdout for competing On Our Own Terms.
My first reading of Ware was that she was saying "don't compete" to women.
This isn't really what she's saying, though.  For women to compete on our
own terms is to not blindly accept the standards of success that have
been used in the past, which make no reference to special values or skills
we may have after being raised as women in this culture.  A very simple
example might be that, where traditionally the most successful manager
might be the one whose group writes the most code, the most successful
on traditionally feminine terms might be slightly less productive but 
have a very pleasant interpersonal environment.   (In fact I choose my jobs 
using this criterion.) A woman who values relationships
but thinks that to succeed she has to be the biggest kickass SOB is
going to experience great internal conflict.  And there is no reason
why we should compromise ourselves like that.

Personally, I am uncomfortable competing because I empathize with the
loser when I win.   People who play competitive sports learn to manage
this feeling in the arena at least, and both women and men can learn to.
But I refuse to accept any claim that empathising with my less succesful
colleagues in unprofessional.  (At the moment I am competing for jobs
with some very good friends.)

Some other traditionally feminine values that have a place in the workplace:

problem-solving by consensus: not just the loudest person gets heard
appearance of the product: are all the details working? is the color nice?
			is it friendly?
the ability to do several things at once, juggle several projects
legitimacy of non-work relationships like family commitments that might
		call for some flexibility in scheduling  (gee, men want
		paternity leave all of a sudden.  why is that?)
respecting the natural environment & cleaning up after yourself
being able to spell, use grammar, type
being able to express your feelings and show an appropriate affect in
		situations -- (candidates are allowed to cry about election
		results now, did you notice? how about farewell parties?)

These issues are all very relevant to the computing profession --
you can figure out the details.  Let's just say that if no one can
listen to clients, it doesn't matter how many stud coders the company 
has.  Sure, there are women stud coders.  But there are other ways to 
succeed.

Elizabeth

Arpa:	eliz@cs.rochester.edu (Elizabeth Hinkelman)
UUCP:	...{rocksvax|allegra|decvax}!rochester!eliz
USnail:	Department of Computer Science, U. of Rochester, N.Y. 14627
phone:	(716) 275 - 2527 (office)