Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!apple!oliveb!sun!sally!plocher
From: plocher%sally@Sun.COM (John Plocher)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: A suggestion: Remove dashes from signature (Long)
Message-ID: <106806@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: 25 May 89 22:19:21 GMT
References: <224@levels.sait.edu.au> <616@ispi.UUCP>
Sender: news@sun.Eng.Sun.COM
Reply-To: plocher@sun.com (John Plocher)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View
Lines: 77

+---- In <616@ispi.UUCP> Jonathan Bayer writes:
| +---- In <224@levels.sait.edu.au> DAVID NEWALL is paraphrased:
| | I'd like to see the two dashes that are put above the signature removed.
| +----

I agree.

| Two points here.  First, the two dashes are used by some mailers and
| other programs to deliminate the end of the message.  If you remove
| the dashes then a program would have no way of knowing where the message
| ended and the signature began.

This "feature" is not specified in any RFC that I know of.  The Body of
a message is EVERYTHING in that message following the headers.  Including
signatures.  Including "included" signatures.

This is NOT an ELM problem.  It is the problem of the program that is trying
to strip signatures.  If *you* need dashes, then *you* put them in your signature.
If *I* don't want them, I won't put them in my signature.

| Second, rn and/or postnews will not accept a .signature file with more
| than 4 lines in it.

Then change rn - it *is* configurable.  Or better yet, shrink your signature.
This is NOT an ELM problem.

Let's look at the header in this message (and allow me to make a few comments)
(I'm not really picking on Jonathan here, just trying to show you all where
I am coming from)

| From: jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer)
| Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
| Subject: Re: A suggestion: Remove dashes from signature
| Message-ID: <616@ispi.UUCP>
| Date: 25 May 89 15:25:37 GMT
| References: <224@levels.sait.edu.au>
| Reply-To: jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer)
| Organization: Intelligent Software Products, Inc.
| Lines: 21

(And the signature)

| JB
| -- 
| Jonathan Bayer			      Beware: The light at the end of the
| Intelligent Software Products, Inc.	      tunnel may be an oncoming dragon
| 500 Oakwood Ave.				...uunet!ispi!root
| Roselle Park, NJ   07204    (201) 245-5922    jbayer@ispi.UUCP

In the header we have:
	Johathan's full name
	Jonathan's company name
	Jonathan's domain address  (and it is wrong - .UUCP is not a domain)

In the signature which can't spare a line to put in dashes we have:
	Johathan's initials        (THIS is a valid signature!)
	Johathan's full name	   (A repeat from the headers)
	Jonathan's company name	   (A repeat from the headers)
	Jonathan's uucp address    (useful)
	Jonathan's domain address  (and it is wrong - .UUCP is not a domain)
	Jonathan's US MAIL address (Why bother? We have email)
	Jonathan's Phone number    (A good thing to have)
	A cute quote		   (uugh.  I hate them things :-)

If we get rid of the stuff which is ALREADY in the headers we get:

> JB 						...uunet!ispi!root
> 500 Oakwood Ave. Roselle Park, NJ   07204    (201) 245-5922
> Beware: The light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming dragon

If we get rid of the useless stuff (quotes :-) we get:

> JB 	...uunet!ispi!root	 (201) 245-5922

Lots of room for the dashes IF YOU NEED THEM.

- John Plocher