Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!ispi!jbayer
From: jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: A suggestion: Remove dashes from signature (Long)
Message-ID: <618@ispi.UUCP>
Date: 26 May 89 15:30:05 GMT
References: <224@levels.sait.edu.au> <616@ispi.UUCP> <106806@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer)
Organization: Intelligent Software Products, Inc.
Lines: 127


In article <106806@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> plocher@sun.com (John Plocher) writes:
}+---- In <616@ispi.UUCP> Jonathan Bayer writes:
}| +---- In <224@levels.sait.edu.au> DAVID NEWALL is paraphrased:
}| | I'd like to see the two dashes that are put above the signature removed.
}| +----
}
}I agree.
}
}| Two points here.  First, the two dashes are used by some mailers and
}| other programs to deliminate the end of the message.  If you remove
}| the dashes then a program would have no way of knowing where the message
}| ended and the signature began.
}
}This "feature" is not specified in any RFC that I know of.  The Body of
}a message is EVERYTHING in that message following the headers.  Including
}signatures.  Including "included" signatures.

As far as I know this is not a feature from an RFC, it is instead an
ad-hoc standard.  Many different mailers and programs work this way.

}
}This is NOT an ELM problem.  It is the problem of the program that is trying
}to strip signatures.  If *you* need dashes, then *you* put them in your signature.
}If *I* don't want them, I won't put them in my signature.
}
}| Second, rn and/or postnews will not accept a .signature file with more
}| than 4 lines in it.
}
}Then change rn - it *is* configurable.  Or better yet, shrink your signature.
}This is NOT an ELM problem.

While I have the source to rn, many people do not.  While shrinking a
signature is a possibility, sometimes there is a valid need for 4 lines.

}
}Let's look at the header in this message (and allow me to make a few comments)
}(I'm not really picking on Jonathan here, just trying to show you all where
}I am coming from)

Understood.  I am not picking on you here, just trying to respond in a
rational manner.  (flames to /dev/null)

}
}| From: jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer)
}| Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
}| Subject: Re: A suggestion: Remove dashes from signature
}| Message-ID: <616@ispi.UUCP>
}| Date: 25 May 89 15:25:37 GMT
}| References: <224@levels.sait.edu.au>
}| Reply-To: jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer)
}| Organization: Intelligent Software Products, Inc.
}| Lines: 21
}
}(And the signature)
}
}| JB
}| -- 
}| Jonathan Bayer			      Beware: The light at the end of the
}| Intelligent Software Products, Inc.	      tunnel may be an oncoming dragon
}| 500 Oakwood Ave.				...uunet!ispi!root
}| Roselle Park, NJ   07204    (201) 245-5922    jbayer@ispi.UUCP
}
}In the header we have:
}	Johathan's full name
}	Jonathan's company name
}	Jonathan's domain address  (and it is wrong - .UUCP is not a domain)

	I agree.  However, most mailers will recognize .UUCP and route
mail appropriately.

}
}In the signature which can't spare a line to put in dashes we have:
}	Johathan's initials        (THIS is a valid signature!)

The initials are my personalized signature.  Sometimes I sign mail
differently.  The dashes seperate my message from my standard signature
which goes on all my mail.

}	Johathan's full name	   (A repeat from the headers)
}	Jonathan's company name	   (A repeat from the headers)
}	Jonathan's uucp address    (useful)
}	Jonathan's domain address  (and it is wrong - .UUCP is not a domain)

		Tell smail that .uucp is not a domain.  I kept having
problems with the mail subsystem until it was pointed out that smail
needed a domain if the "@" addressing is used.  Bang addressing does not
need a domain.

}	Jonathan's US MAIL address (Why bother? We have email)

It is difficult to send a book via e-mail.  The reason for repeating the
full US Mail address at the end is in case someone wants to send
something by mail/ups/etc they won't have to refer to different areas of
the article.  If the article is printed out then the entire address is
located at one spot.  It is also useful if you want to cut out an
address/phone # and put it somewhere else.

}	Jonathan's Phone number    (A good thing to have)
}	A cute quote		   (uugh.  I hate them things :-)

	The quote is a space filler.  It doesn't have to be there.

}
}If we get rid of the stuff which is ALREADY in the headers we get:
}
}> JB 						...uunet!ispi!root
}> 500 Oakwood Ave. Roselle Park, NJ   07204    (201) 245-5922
}> Beware: The light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming dragon
}
}If we get rid of the useless stuff (quotes :-) we get:
}
}> JB 	...uunet!ispi!root	 (201) 245-5922
}
}Lots of room for the dashes IF YOU NEED THEM.

What if somebody else needs it?  The dashes do not take up much space,
and they make it convienent for those people and systems which do need
them.



-- 
Jonathan Bayer			      Beware: The light at the end of the
Intelligent Software Products, Inc.	      tunnel may be an oncoming dragon
500 Oakwood Ave.				...uunet!ispi!root
Roselle Park, NJ   07204    (201) 245-5922    jbayer@ispi.UUCP