Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!unmvax!ncar!boulder!sunybcs!bingvaxu!leah!rpi!sun.soe.clarkson.edu!cline From: cline@sunshine.ece.clarkson.edu (Marshall Cline) Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Subject: Re: What exactly is a software engineer ? Message-ID: Date: 24 May 89 21:32:57 GMT References: <3359@ae.sei.cmu.edu> <5004@goofy.megatest.UUCP> Sender: news@sun.soe.clarkson.edu Reply-To: cline@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Marshall Cline) Organization: Clarkson University, Postdam NY Lines: 51 In-reply-to: djones@megatest.UUCP's message of 17 May 89 21:53:11 GMT In article <5004@goofy.megatest.UUCP> djones@megatest.UUCP (Dave Jones) writes: >From article <3359@ae.sei.cmu.edu>, by rsd@sei.cmu.edu (Richard S D'Ippolito): >> In article <40386@think.UUCP> Franklin A Davis brings up certain points that >>>...Fortunately the real world is often a good >>>teacher, so people with CS degrees (or no degree at all) become >>>proficient engineers with experience. >>I find it difficult to believe that one can acquire enough knowledge of a >>technical field without the benefit of a formal period of study of the >>field, such as you suggest, though I suppose it has been done by those rare >>folks that you and I cannot hope to emulate. >Gimme a break. College is not magic and professors are not magicians. AGREE! The idea that coursework is _necessary_ for learning is LUDICROUS! Coursework isn't even _sufficient_ for learning! However: Raw, Hard, Industry Experience seems to show that teaching Computer Scientists how to be an Engineer is harder than teaching an Engineer how to program. The point is not that Engineering _coursework_ is required, as much as the whole _mentality_ that is developed over time when trained (formally or informally) as an Engineer. >... I'm not recommending that anyone drop out, mind you.... AGREE! Neither am I. High Tech job opportunities invariably list Education Requirements. That's the way "The System" evaluates people. Unfortunately we've no way of rewarding _ability_; instead we use _education_. We've all known "well educated idiots," and we've all known people who are excellent at what they do but lack a "piece of paper" (diploma). Unfortunately The System rewards the former but not the latter. I'd like to change the way it works, but I can't -- I have no better way. How else would we evaluate people's abilities? Testing? That's no good, because some people choke under testing situations, yet they might be very skillful and proficient in the day-to-day grind. Marshall -- ________________________________________________________________ Dr. Marshall P. Cline ARPA: cline@sun.soe.clarkson.edu ECE Department UseNet: uunet!sun.soe.clarkson.edu!cline Clarkson University BitNet: BH0W@CLUTX Potsdam, NY 13676 AT&T: (315) 268-6591