Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!lll-winken!uunet!kddlab!titcca!sragwa!wsgw!socslgw!diamond!diamond
From: diamond@diamond.csl.sony.junet (Norman Diamond)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Engineers are just as much in the dark as programmers.
Keywords: Computer Scientists vs. Software Engineers, Devil's Advocate
Message-ID: <10297@socslgw.csl.sony.JUNET>
Date: 29 May 89 04:21:12 GMT
References: <24857@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
Sender: news@csl.sony.JUNET
Reply-To: diamond@csl.sony.junet (Norman Diamond)
Organization: Sony Computer Science Laboratory Inc., Tokyo, Japan
Lines: 36

In article <24857@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> bks@ALFA.berkeley.edu (Brad Sherman) writes:

>Good engineering is done by good engineers.  Good software is produced by
>good programmers.

True.  Only most companies want to hire cheap programmers instead of
good ones.

>The problem for software projects is that there are not enough good
>experienced programmers

I think that in fact there are.

>and therefore

So I do not think it is the reason for the following:

>there are not enough good experienced programming managers.

This is definitely true.  Many good programmers do not want to become
managers because it is easier and more productive to manage computers.
But even those who do want to become managers are often frustrated.
Again most companies do not want managers to be experienced in the
field that they're managing.  My impression is that other fields of
engineering would suffer this problem too, except for legislation and
licensing requirements, etc.

There are exceptions though.  If a good programmer begins working for
a bank instead of for a vendor, the rewards will arrive several years
later.

--
Norman Diamond, Sony Computer Science Lab (diamond%csl.sony.co.jp@relay.cs.net)
  The above opinions are my own.   |  Why are programmers criticized for
  If they're also your opinions,   |  re-implementing the wheel, when car
  you're infringing my copyright.  |  manufacturers are praised for it?