Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!monster.cis.ohio-state.edu!bob From: bob@monster.cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) Newsgroups: gnu.gcc Subject: Re: info-gcc is not a common carrier Message-ID: Date: 1 Jun 89 00:18:33 GMT References: <8905310246.AA00550@sugar-bombs.ai.mit.edu> Sender: news@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Reply-To: Bob Sutterfield Distribution: gnu Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Computer & Information Science Lines: 55 In-reply-to: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu's message of 31 May 89 23:05:01 GMT In article hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick) writes: I'm seeing this information via the GNU Usenet groups. There may be a cultural difference between mailing lists and newsgroups. ...I think the GNU project is justified in limiting use of its mailing list as it likes. However I would have qualms about continued access to Usenet for these groups if there is any control on the basis of the authors' politics. The gnu.* news distribution is not a part of Usenet - it only uses the same transport mechanisms. Sites that receive it do so because they specifically asked for it, in the grand tradition of "you want it, you arrange to get it". That's why every article that's gatewayed from the mailing lists carries the header "Organization: GNU's Not Usenet" as a reminder. GNU is its own alternative news heirarchy, not subject to the same conventions as the Usenet in the same way that bionet or alt aren't subject to the same conventions. gnu.* was created last May 1 to provide freer, lower-overhead access to the technical discussion forums sponsored by the Free Software Foundation, and in this sense it succeeded wildly. The monthly propagation statistics show that over two thirds of the gnu.* newsgroups are available on over two thirds of the machines that also carry Usenet. Many individuals and organizations have unsubscribed from the mailing lists because of the increased convenience and reduced system load of propagating and reading gnu.* via the news mechanisms rather than via the mail mechanisms. While disagreements occasionally happened on the mailing lists, it was much more apparent to the participants that the lists were part of someone else's facility, and others were taking advantage of their hospitality. The newsgroups, however, loose people from those roots, and they feel much freer to abuse the medium - even so far as to maintain that FSF has no claim to the newsgroups or word to say about their intended content. This was certainly not the intent when they were created, and is still not the case. It's a cultural misunderstanding, accentuated by the characters of the two media: public vs private. The problem is, the two cultures aren't mixing well because some folks came in late and don't understand the arrangement. Please, folks, remember that the gnu.* newsgroups are really just a cheaper way to transport, and an easier way to read FSF's mailing lists. They exist for the same purpose as the lists, because they are essentially the same thing as the lists except for the transport mechanism. They aren't the same as the other newsgroups; they just look that way from where you'e sitting. FSF has every right to restrict the distribution of (what used to be) their own, internal, private developers' mailing lists. Please don't force them to exercise that prerogative! It would be a real shame to declare gnu.* a failed experiment after 13 months of such apparent success, and dismantle the apparatus. Please keep gnu.gcc/info-gcc focused on the technical issues of the compiler; and similarly with the other newsgroups and mailing lists.