Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!att!cbnews!military
From: asulaima@udenva.cair.du.edu (SULAIMAN)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: submarine warfare
Message-ID: <6770@cbnews.ATT.COM>
Date: 21 May 89 21:54:07 GMT
Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM
Organization: U of Denver
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Approved: military@att.att.com



From: asulaima@udenva.cair.du.edu (SULAIMAN)


There was a discussion going on earlier this month abouth the last sub attack
and sub warfare since WWII. While talking to an acquaintance I recalled that
in the 1971 Indo-Pak war the Pakistani submarine PNS Ghazi was sunk by an Indian
Frigate. As I recall Ghazi was trying to torpedo what appeared to be INS Vikrant
the Indian carrier. I don't recall the full details but it brings out the point
that in a lot of little wars the little navies of the world might have seen some
action. Israel and Egypt both have a small conventional sub force. I wonder if 
they have seen action. 

There was some flaming of the Argentinian Navy decision to keep their carrier
in port. However it seems that the sea state around Falklands would make 
a throughdeck carrier operation practically impossible. The Brits using their
jump jets(Harriers) don't face the same landing problems as on more conventional
carriers in bad weather. Something for the CVN fans to think about. I think 
during the war some RN official pointed that out to their US counterparts who
were using the Brit success with their "little" carriers to push their "super"
carriers. Comments.

Back to subs. How good is ASW warfare? There was a report about 2 years ago
that said that in a naval exercise a Los Angeles class put 6 torps into the
Nimitz! Incidently the ref's said that Nimitz efficiency was reduced only by
20% and let the CV run. Also a while back there was a story in Newsweek(sorry
about my specificness :-) which dealt with the topic of Supercarriers and their
need. It mentioned a sub commander who keeps snapshots of CV's in his 
periscope fire sights. Apparently he has an impressive collection.
The Swedes are not slouches as far as ASW but they keep on having such 
problems with Sov subs that they cannot raise. I'm sure there intention is not
to sink one but still I would think that they would have had more success
at finding Sov subs in their waters. 

These bring me to my point. Are attack subs really that good now? Are surface
vessels just targets to the modern sub threat. There has been some extensive
discussion of sub defenses and modern protection for subs but it appaears
that sub detection technology has remained basically the same since WWII
with only minor improvements. A discussion regarding the detection and
follow up techniques might be interesting. Also how are these naval exercises
evaluated in terms of mock combat? Does anyone know recent or past score?

	Ameer Z. Sulaiman.