Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcvax!ukc!strath-cs!glasgow!gilbert
From: gilbert@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Gilbert Cockton)
Newsgroups: comp.ai
Subject: Re: Free will and responsibility.
Keywords: Libertarianism, behaviorism , existentialism
Message-ID: <3040@crete.cs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 2 Jun 89 09:31:57 GMT
References: <10333@ihlpb.ATT.COM> <3850@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> <52019@linus.UUCP> <1309@lzfme.att.com> <1966@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu> <528@orawest.UUCP> <1979@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu> <53788@linus.UUCP> <32091@sri-unix.SRI.COM> <2008@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu>
Reply-To: gilbert@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Gilbert Cockton)
Organization: Comp Sci, Glasgow Univ, Scotland
Lines: 29

In article <2008@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu> brianc@daedalus.UUCP (Brian Colfer) writes:
>When I was an undergraduate many years ago my Prof. Kirk Gable told me that
>my concerns about free will were fundamentally a waste of time.  One of
>his reasons were that if behaviorism works as an acurate model for how we
>live our lives and proves useful for helping people in education, mental 
>health and other similar endevours then who cares about free will.
>Well, in a sense he's right but I always enjoy discussions about the 
>fundamental nature of humanity.  

Gable was largely wrong on Education - I doubt he could cite *ANY*
evidence for 'behaviourist' techniques improving on existing methods in
education (of which rote learning had been well-established since at
least the Renaissance grammar school).

I accept his point on behavioural modification, but only up to a
certain point.  I know of no behavioural modification programs where
the patient is not briefed on the therapy and does not have to be
'motivated' by means other than the narrow reinforcement repetoire of
behaviourism.  I would be interested in the names of practicing
behavioural therapists who do not require the active involvement of the
patient's 'will' in order to get somewhere.

Most proponents of behaviourism work with rodents and don't have a clue
about action in the real world.  Next time a behaviourist guru tries to
pull this one on you, get them to demonstrate the techniques to you in
an educational or clinical setting.  Stuff the rats :-)
-- 
Gilbert Cockton, Department of Computing Science,  The University, Glasgow
	gilbert@uk.ac.glasgow.cs <europe>!ukc!glasgow!gilbert