Xref: utzoo comp.sys.amiga:35218 comp.sys.amiga.tech:5574 comp.windows.x:10764 comp.graphics:6111 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uflorida!gatech!ncsuvx!garvin From: garvin@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga,comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.windows.x,comp.graphics Subject: Re: Request for testers for Color X11 for Amiga Message-ID: <3158@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu> Date: 11 Jun 89 19:30:09 GMT References: <788@boing.UUCP> <566@bnr-fos.UUCP> <793@boing.UUCP> Reply-To: garvin@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu (Michael A. Garvin) Organization: Bill 'n Opus Campaign HQ Lines: 65 [Line eater? What line eat [Many posts about X on the Amiga not included.] About X11 on the Amiga and the memory/disk requirements and the "future" of the Amiga windowing environment... here are my $0.02 worth... We here in the NCSU CC Systems department are looking into the Amiga X11 package for a number of reasons, primarily due to the fact that it would present a cost-effective X terminal. Now, many things play into that statement. When I say cost-effective I mean more than mere $$$. One has to look at diskless X terminal as being cheap and cost beneficial, but you have to remember that they are net hogs (inherent in any diskless workstation). You can step up the ladder to something such as a micro with X, but your options are limited there. The Mac is the competition which the Amiga will have to live up to (and, hopefully, excel past) in order to fill this niche. Cost wise, the Amiga wins. Moving on up the ladder entails Suns, DEC equipment, etc., and higher cost. Why would I, the customer, look at the Amiga? For one, with the X system on a local disk I would be looking at lower traffic than a diskless X terminal. Yes, one terminal does not an EtherNet load hog make, but in an environment where one might have many dozen machine talking to a single or even multiple servers over one or two networks the load will build up. Another reason is (again) the cost. Dale Luck's numbers (and, when we hopefully get our system and we can test the Amiga versus other machine, we can verify with our own test runs) look good. Clearly, the X Amiga will be able to hold its own against other machine costing MUCH more. Add to all this the TCP/IP and NFS supplied with the AmeriStar card and you have a VERY attractive setup. Now, for the "windowing" aspect. No, no, X is NOT the future on the 500/1000/2000. Maybe the 3000 machine will take this into consideration if it leans towards a workstation, but WorkBench is the Amiga's environment. I look to X as another software package available, and, in this case, as a network windowing package (among other things). It is not a replacement. On an workstation X is intended to be THE windowing environment. And rightfully so, in my mind. As for memory and disk, well, when was the last time you looked at the size of the X11 release and built it? That's what virtual memory is for. Now, if the VM on the Amiga discussion ever comes to fruition, then maybe things will change. But until then I find 3 meg to be reasonable for this application. Personally, I happen to love the idea of X on the Amiga. It's high time we began to see this for what it is: war. Specifically, Amiga vs. Mac. And we're starting to fall behind in several areas. I'm not intending to start a flame war here, or to start another "which is better, Amiga or Mac?" discussion. I'm just pointing out that the tide is shifting. I know many people around this area who now favor the Mac. These are people who, about 1 year ago, would have REALLY looked at the Amiga. But poor service, lacking software in some areas, and a bad reputation on the part of C-A have turned their heads. Again, don't get me wrong, I love my Amiga. And I hope that things are turning. We have many examples to prove this such as X11, more 3D CAD/rendering/animation packages, improved hardware (with Agnes), better service from the manufacturer, and ever increasing hardware and software available. So, in short (which is what this was supposed to be), I don't see X as the Amiga's future. I see it as another outstanding application available for the Amiga, one just like any other. I hope I haven't offended anyone with this (specifically, Mr. Luck), and I hope I haven't fired out much bad info. And I hope I haven't cast to gloomy a cloud over the situation. As always, everything here is open to discussion/flames. If it's worth noting, please post. And thank you for your support. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- garvin@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu Michael Garvin NCSU Computing Center Dislaimer: The above is my personal opinion, and not that of NCSU or the CC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------