Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!lll-winken!uunet!apctrc!drd!mark
From: mark@drd.UUCP (Mark Lawrence)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: Eiffel vs. C++
Message-ID: <562@drd.UUCP>
Date: 12 Jun 89 14:19:16 GMT
References: <2689@ssc-vax.UUCP> <151@eiffel.UUCP>
Reply-To: lawrence@tusun2.knet.UTulsa.Edu (Mark Lawrence)
Organization: DRD Corporation, Tulsa, OK
Lines: 44

} From message <2689@ssc-vax.UUCP> by dmg@ssc-vax.UUCP (David Geary):
} 
} > I would like to start a discussion of Eiffel vs. C++.

And then bertrand@eiffel.UUCP (Bertrand Meyer) wrote:
[...AmongOtherThings...]
}     Money, power and intimidation cannot buy everything. Once the lights
} are out, the hype is gone, the pre-settled panels have been held and
} the biased articles have been read, sooner or later people will go
} home and start to work. Then they will judge on costs and benefits,
} not promises and politics.

I remember going to the vendors exhibit during the '87 Summer Usenix in
Phoesnix (the occasion of the infamous Jobs line: "X is braindamaged and 
will fail...". hah.).  I recall sitting down with Mr. Meyer at the time 
for a walkthrough of Eiffel (Cepage?) and trying to understand just what 
it _was_.   I was impressed at the time with the possibilities of the
environment (and still am, based on all that I've heard about it).  But
I'll never give it (nor Objective C) serious consideration for use in my 
company.

For me, it boils down to the same reasons why I refuse to buy a Gould
machine running MPX, a DEC machine running VMS or a DG machine running
AOS.  It's the same reason why I think it unreasonable to develop the UI
portions of our applications in native SunViews.  It's the same reason
why I think it unwise to commit to a database interface that has no SQL
capability.  

                           I want a choice. 

I am extremely uncomfortable with the prospect of a vendor who has me 
locked into their proprietary product telling me what is and isn't 
important in terms of bug fixes and new product features -- I'd like to 
be able to make that choice in a free market.  Quite simply, Objective C 
and Eiffel don't give me that choice and C++ does.  The former may be 
more elegant in design and execution and have some arguably better 
features and capabilities, but I'll only seriously consider the latter, 
warts (from its procedural heritage) and all.  I suppose that if I 
could reshape the world to my own liking, I would choose software tools, 
implementation languages and pieces of systems on technical merit alone.  
But the world isn't like that and so I don't.  What's more, it has 
nothing to do (from my perspective) with the power, money and 
what-have-you behind "The Telephone Company" (anybody for "The President's 
Analyst"?).  Such inuendo seems to me to be a bit far-fetched.