Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!apple!ames!pacbell!att!tellab5!toth
From: toth@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US (Joseph G. Toth Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple
Subject: Languages for an Apple //e - //c (was P-Code Systems)
Keywords: Just TRY buying one.
Message-ID: <1373@tellab5.tellabs.CHI.IL.US>
Date: 2 Jun 89 12:27:53 GMT
Organization: Tellabs, Inc. Lisle, IL
Lines: 59

What started out as a discussion (plea) regarding High Level Languages
that run on a computer ( //e, //c, ][+, etc) has rolled into a discussion
of P-Code systems and their merits in general.

I agree, Mr. Lyons, that if you are refering to an implementation on a //gs,
a dreaded IBM, or any of a number of other computers where a processor that
supports large stack frames is used, that a P-Code system is dreadfully
innefficient compared to Native Code Compiles.

So, LETS GET BACK TO 6502 implementations.

On a Apple // (e or c or ][+), the effective difference between a P-Code
system and something compiled to "Native Code" is not that great when it
comes to execution speed.  Pseudo-Stacks must be maintained for any
Procedural Variables allong with return pointers and any other things
that the compiler thinks are important (flags, etc).  Initialization code
is always created, and (in many cases) Hardware drivers are loaded as
subroutine calls.  All this additional code is added (in many cases, even
if it is not needed - A guy I work with bought Aztec 'C' anf compiled
a program with a single procedure that did 'printf ( "Hi" );', this one
stament program compiled to approximately a 4K byte program - no disk I/O
or any other functions).

We could get into good programming techniques and implementations, but
I would rather not.

It just seems that (at least on the Apple //) Compilers that purport being
native code compilers must do many of the same things to support their
implementations that supposedly make P-Code systems large and inefficient.

So, I'm not really pushing P-Code compilers as a perfect system, it's not.
It just seems to make sense in this application.

Back to the point;

A couple of compilers were mentioned, ORCA Small C and Prolog.

I went to my local Egghead store. They said;

  "What are those, compilers?  We don't sell those. If you get us the
   name and address of the company that created them, we will place an
   order for you.  However, you won't be able to return them since it
   is a special order."

Hell, I could direct order them myself if I had that information.

I went to 2 Authorized Apple retailers (one by work, one near my home).
They said;

   "Why don't you buy a Mac.  We hav quite a selection of compilers
   for it."

They didn't even bother pushing a //gs.  It's like they were trained in
sales techniques at an IBM sales seminar.

-- 
------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Maybe I shouldn't have done it, sarcasm is so   | Joseph G. Toth Jr.
seldom understood.  Don't FLAME on me, please.  | uunet!tellab5!toth