Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!jgreco
From: jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: Missed posting?
Message-ID: <2883@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>
Date: 12 Jun 89 04:46:39 GMT
References: <2514.249092C2@isishq.FIDONET.ORG>
Sender: news@csd4.milw.wisc.edu
Reply-To: jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco)
Organization: Interstellar Telephone, Telegraph, and Telepath, Inc.
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In comp.sys.cbm article <2514.249092C2@isishq.FIDONET.ORG>, Geoffrey.Welsh@p0.f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) wrote:
]
]   While leafing through the comp.sys.cbm archives on Canada Remote Systems, I 
]discovered a posting that I have not seen here. Since I know that CRS' Usenet 
]software is still fairly new and might not have been operating perfectly, I 
]figured that the posting probably never got out at all. Please ignore this 
](and forgive me) if you've all seen this before!

_I_ haven't seen this before!

]   I wanted to re-post this for several reasons, a (fleeting) desire for 
]"fairness" among them. It relates to conversations between Joe Greco and 
]myself panning Steve Punter and Workable Concepts; it should be noted that 
]both Steve and WC's front-man, Jeff Goebel, can read all comp.sys.cbm postings 
]on CRS (the archives there go back a couple of months), but we may not be able 
]to see all of their postings. If requested to do so, I will pass messages to 
]these people or bring their attention to specific posting(s).

Fairness is:  People can waste their money in foolish ways, but that
does not mean that I will approve.  ;-)

]   Enough administrivia, here is the message:
] 
]Date: 05-23-89 (19:54)        U-CBM Number: 490 (Echo)
]  To: jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu     Refer#: 473
]From: JEFF GOEBEL                     Read: NO
]Subj: BBS64 SUPPORT.
] 
]Hello Joe.
] 
]You are not alone in thinking that Steve was not a great support person,
]although I often here users who think he was GREAT at support too.  What
]Steve didn't do was adapt to other people's ideas.

Steve would not listen to other people's ideas.  That is very true.
He also would never admit to a mistake (ranging from minor programming
things up to major decisions like the IEEE/serial thing).  The initial
service I got was rotten:  Node 30's BBS64.6 update came incomplete
and in a form that caused the machine to entirely lock up.  I got no
assistance fixing it, besides a suggestion that I ship it *BACK*
(anybody seen Canadian/US postal rates?  Or the length that it takes
to deliver?)....  Steve and I got off to a bad start from the very
beginning.

]If it were up to Steve, he'd probably still be writing BBS64 mods... but
]times change, and as 64 hardware (IEEE specific) became harder to
]maintain, people wanted a cheaper PC version.  (Ironic eh?  PC -
]cheaper?)

That was Punter's own stupid choice.  He could have developed a serial
based version of BBS64, but he did NOT.  The majority of C64 owners
out there use serial equipment.  I can see Steve's supposed point
about wear and tear, but I myself have SysOps running my software on
1541's, and for several years have had no problems.  I was even
flexible enough to adapt my severely 1541 specific software (the old
version 5) to work on the 1581.  That particular system fields no
fewer than 30-40 calls per day and works flawlessly.

Neither the operator nor I have had to do a shred of real maintenance
on that system for a year and a half.  That would not be true of a
BBS64 installation.  And on top of it, I was flexible.  I modified the
sofware to work with the 1581 way back when nobody knew anything about
the 1581.  It was a lot of rewriting.  But I was responding to a need.
I even made changes and added an autoboot cartridge to address a local
power-outage problem.  

That is my idea of "great support."  Responsiveness to specific needs
and suggestions!  That is not what I got from Steve when I told him
that my BBS64 was locking up when I tried to use it with my Courier
2400 modems!

]In any case, I am happy to be part of (note[  PART OF) the company
]supporting the PC-PunterNet, which retains full support of the 64 nodes.

I hear there isn't too much to support.  Second class nodes on a third
rate network.

]I notice in some of your messages that you're no longer a Punter
]software fan, and I can accept that

The last blow was the MetroNet affair.  We had two PunterNet nodes in
Milwaukee, mine would have been a third.  I wanted to set up a central
mail "hub" so that long distance costs would be minimized.  Besides, I
had a 2400 baud error correcting modem to spare.  The only cooperation
Steve granted was to allow me to forward Toronto-bound mail through
his node.  No suggestions, and a generally cold attitude towards the
idea.  I saw MetroNet as a way to encourage PunterNet use in Milwaukee
by lowering overhead costs.  Steve's attitude indicated to me that he
didn't care if PunterNet lived or died.

]but I also noticed a knock at
]Workable Concepts - or me personally, which aided Geoffry Welsh in an
]unsolicited attack/comparison for his DESTERM gain.

As I understand it, WC is footing the bill on this PC-PN rubbish!  In
addition, I received a WC flyer that really turned me off.  I don't
recall details, but I could probably look it up.

My lasting impression was that the firm should have been named
Unworkable Concepts.

]For a news network such as this, where advertising isn't supposed to be
]allowed, I sure see a lot of "subtle" promotion and attack.  Today is my
]first exposure to the network, and I see now I have to take a look every
]now and then just to see what people are saying about me.

Who's advertising?  I'm not.  I'm giving my very loud opinion of the
state of the only decent Commodore based network in North America, and what I
think of certain people/firms who appear to be working against the
further development of it.

]It's not paranoia - It's business.  I am not Workable Concepts... I'm
]just the guy on the boards.  Instead of saying what you don't like, tell
]"ME" what's wrong... Maybe we can work together to be better at support
]than Steve was.  I'm not expecting to win you back... but I'D rather not
]have you working against me.

How about a serial based copy of BBS64 that will work with the "new"
1670?  Expand the size of PunterNet.  Make it a growing network
instead of a dying network.  That's what has turned me off.

System shutting down, so I must stop raving now.

]Jeff Goebel
]per: Workable Concepts.
] 
]- You can't please everybody, and trying displeases more.
--
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu		Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200
USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave			     PunterNet Node 30 or 31
	West Allis, WI  53227-3329	"These aren't anybody's opinions."
Voice:	414/321-6184			Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)