Newsgroups: can.uucp Path: utzoo!sq!lee From: lee@sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin) Subject: InterEUnet -- networking in Europe Message-ID: <1989Dec15.171252.4565@sq.sq.com> Reply-To: lee@sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin) Organization: Unixsys (UK) Ltd Distribution: can Date: Fri, 15 Dec 89 17:12:52 GMT After several people expressed interest in te state of Unix netwoorknib in Europe, here is a message I received from the adminstrivia department at ukc, the UK mail/news gateway. I shall present it without comment, except to point out that the notation #18000 means "Eighteen thousad pounds sterling", an amount of money. Lee |From ukc.ac.uk!uknet Wed Nov 22 02:38:53 1989 Received: by sq.sq.com id 2207; Wed, 22 Nov 89 02:38:29 EST From: uiucdcs!NSFNET-RELAY.AC.UK!cu.warwick.ac.uk!ukc.ac.uk!uknet Received: from relay.cs.net by a.cs.uiuc.edu with SMTP (5.61+/IDA-1.2.8) id AA05790; Tue, 21 Nov 89 10:04:30 -0600 Received: from nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by RELAY.CS.NET id ai00263; 21 Nov 89 9:33 EST Received: from sun.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by vax.NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK via Janet with NIFTP id aa02452; 20 Nov 89 11:09 GMT Received: from snow by sol.warwick.ac.uk; Mon, 20 Nov 89 11:13:41 GMT Received: from ukc.ac.uk by kestrel.Ukc.AC.UK List Processor id aa05856; 18 Oct 89 15:28 BST To: uiucdcs!ukc.ac.uk!uknet-admins Subject: This in sent ONLY to Commercial UKnet Sites From: Peter Houlder Address: Computing Laboratory, University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent, UK. Phone: +44 227 764000 x7568 Fax: +44 227 762811 (G3) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 89 11:26:33 EDT Message-Id: <5768.624723993@kestrel> TCP/IP Services via ukc 1. Disclaimer This is an initial survey to gain an idea of which existing UKnet sites might be interested in TCP/IP based services, should these be provided by ukc. It does NOT imply that we are committed to offering such ser- vices, but these services are unlikely to be actively considered without the positive response of UKnet sites. No response WILL be considered as no interest. Finally If you don't have time to read the whole text please don't read it at all, as parts taken out of context will give a wrong impression. 2. The US InterNet The US Government funds the US InterNet to support networking activities for academic and R&D activities. It does not support commercial activi- ties. Fully Connected Status to the US InterNet gives full access for SMTP, FTP, NNTP, Telnet etc ... It is only available to sites that satisfy the above criteria. 3. The European InterEUnet EUnet supported by the EUUG is developing a TCP/IP based network for its backbone sites. It is hoped that EUUG co-operation with, and support for, EUnet will speed up the development of leased line backbone connec- tivity. Many of the backbones, this will shortly include ukc, already have fully connected status to the US InterNet. It is expected that all backbone sites in Western Europe will have this status in the near future. This backbone network will be the hub of InterEUnet. The existing TCP/IP connections to this network are summarised in my EUnet article in the latest EUUG Newsletter, Vol 9 No 3 Autumn 1989. The range of Euro- pean Interconnectivity will initially be heavily biased towards the larger sites within the larger EUnet national networks. This is a deli- berate policy to generate the finance required to support both smaller national networks and smaller sites. The exact details of this phasing will be decided at a technical meeting for all EUnet backbones scheduled for Nov 20-21st this year. More details will therefore be given after this meeting, at the Dec 11-13th Cardiff Meeting. 4. Connection to InterEUnet There are 3 factors to consider with regard to connection: 4.1. Status of Connection a) US InterNet and InterEUnet for sites that satisfy US criteria and are EUUG/EUnet members. b) InterEUnet for sites that are EUUG/EUnet members. This also includes connectivity to a growing number of sites outside Europe. Even for those that do not satisfy US InterNet criteria, InterEUnet will provide direct access to uunet, whose archive services for public domain software are already quite comprehensive and are expected to be even more so in the future. Organisations without connected status may also get connectivity with US partners without using NSFnet at all by making special arrangements. 4.2. Method of Connection a) Leased Line b) Over X25 c) Using SLIP over dialup lines 4.3. Category of Connexion a) Large Commercial b) Small Commercial 4.4. Proposed Initial Tariffs in Holland and France a) Commercial 15-18000 ECU per year An ECU is roughly equivalent to a US dollar (actually 1.41 ECU to pound) and the charge will cover News, Mail and all available high-level TCP/IP protocols. In addition to the above network charges sites would also have to pay the common carrier charges involved in reaching national backbones. The above are the suggestions for Europe, UK charges are yet to be decided. Ukc costs after the first year may well be less than in the second year. If more sites join, then overall costs may well be less even in the early year(s). Unfortunately this is a chicken-and-egg situation. We cannnot give you real estimates of cost until we have some idea of your interest. You cannot confirm your interest until you know real costs, hence this questionaire Sites running leased lines direct to ukc may of course be able to share the cost of both the ukc line and router/switching equipment with other sites, which they service. In this way a hub of top level UK sites could be established. As an example of cost sharing, six people each having 9.6k of a 64k line may find that their costs are about half the cost involved in a personal 9.6k line. 5. Basis of Charges The charges will be high at first, which means that initial participants are likely to be large organisations. The high charging scale is deli- berate, as the cost of funding leased line backbone support along with the funding of TCP/IP routers and switches will be N00000 ECUs, where the scale of N will be clearer after negotiation with suppliers. InterEUnet intends to do things correctly thereby providing a proper European service. It cannot do this without charging the cost to its users. 6. Phases The first phase will be based on large users with leased-line/X25 con- nectivity. Later phases will hopefully extend this service to smaller sites with X25/dialup connectivity. The latter will also involve investment in terminal concentrators and modems. 7. Migration to OSI Running side by side with TCP/IP developments in Europe is the whole field of OSI development. Ukc sees no contradiction in the development of OSI and TCP/IP services and is actively seeking help in developing The ISODE package has in fact proved very valuable in implementing OSI applications, making TCP/IP services (almost) a natural way for a gra- dual and smooth transition to OSI services. X400/X500 services ( all offers will be favourably considered). This is however another chicken-and-egg situation. UKnet is self supporting so investment in these services must be funded. TCP/IP can offer immediate advantages, because it is here and it works. OSI will offer more when it arrives, but at present it offers neither a large range of facilities nor a wide geographical connectivity. Investment in TCP/IP will provide a leased line framework, which has the ability to take on OSI protocols as and when available. There are no religious feelings towards OSI or TCP/IP within the UKnet support group at ukc. We simply want to provide the best services available at any moment in time. 8. Cardiff Meeting Dec 11-13th This meeting will be longer than usual with 2 full days of talks and 1 or 2 half day tutorials. It is intended to use this time to update all attendees with the latest OSI and TCP/IP developments. Please note these dates in your diary. More details will follow later. 9. Action needed by recipient of this email Please detach the below and return to uknet@ukc, using a Subject: InterEUnet Please denote level of interest on a scale 0-5, with 0 as no interest and 5 showing a definite high-level of interest. - ------- DETACH AND RETURN to uknet@ukc ------- Uucp-site-name: Contact-name: Electronic-Address: Status of Connexion sought (1 or 2): 1 - InterNet and InterEUnet, 2 - InterEUnet only Method-of-Connexion (please state interest level 0 - 5 ) Leased-Line( 0-5 ): X25( 0-5 ): Dialup( 0-5 ): Category of Site ( 1 or 2 ) 1 - Large Commercial, 2 - Small Commercial Comments (Take as much space as you need): - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ End of forwarded message. Lee -- Liam R. Quin, lee@sq.com Until Dec. 20th (visiting sq, not an employee) After Dec 20, Unixsys (UK) Ltd, Knutsford, UK -- +44 565 50021 At home: +44 925 831084 (0830 GMT to midnight GMT only please...) rn: .signature: cannot open: no such fire or dirigible