Xref: utzoo comp.ai:5237 talk.philosophy.misc:3312 sci.philosophy.tech:1791 Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!snorkelwacker!apple!mips!prls!pyramid!thirdi!metapsy!sarge From: sarge@metapsy.UUCP (Sarge Gerbode) Newsgroups: comp.ai,talk.philosophy.misc,sci.philosophy.tech Subject: Re: Can Machines Think? Summary: Programs can't understand either. Keywords: Searle Chinese Room Turing test software hardware Message-ID: <968@metapsy.UUCP> Date: 18 Dec 89 23:47:19 GMT References: <83367@linus.UUCP> <1989Dec18.014229.18058@athena.mit.edu> Reply-To: sarge@metapsy.UUCP (Sarge Gerbode) Distribution: na Organization: Metapsychology, Woodside, CA Lines: 28 In article <1989Dec18.014229.18058@athena.mit.edu> crowston@athena.mit.edu (Kevin Crowston) writes: >Searle seems to be saying that the Turing Test is meaningless as a test of >understanding because the Chinese Room can pass it, even though the >person in the Chinese Room doesn't understand Chinese. But it seems to >me that this argument equates the mind and the brain and thus mislocates >the thing doing the understanding. I agree that the man in the room doesn't >understand Chinese; but I would argue similarly that a computer, as a >collection of wires and silicon, or a brain, as a blob of protoplasm, >don't understand anything either. In all three cases, the thing doing the >understanding is the program not the hardware. On reflection, I don't think you can dispose of the issue that easily by differentiating between the program and the hardware. The program is a schema that describes the electronic state the hardware should be in when the code file is loaded. In a very real sense, then, the shape of the physical machine has been altered by loading the code file, just as much as if you had flipped switches within the machine (as we used to do with the old panel switches). So after the code is loaded, there is actually a different physical machine there, just as much as if one had gone out and bought a different machine. Just because it isn't "hard" (i.e., you can't kick it, and it's easy to change), doesn't mean it isn't a physical entity. -- Sarge Gerbode -- UUCP: pyramid!thirdi!metapsy!sarge Institute for Research in Metapsychology 431 Burgess Drive; Menlo Park, CA 94025