Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!caesar.cs.montana.edu!ogicse!blake!Tomobiki-Cho!mrc
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: fad computing
Message-ID: <5104@blake.acs.washington.edu>
Date: 19 Dec 89 20:07:49 GMT
References: <8840002@hpfcso.HP.COM> <76700088@p.cs.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@blake.acs.washington.edu
Organization: Mendou Zaibatsu, Tomobiki-Cho, Butsumetsu-Shi
Lines: 47

In article <76700088@p.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>> No way. I disagree completely.  My throughput with some half-assed operating
>> system like MS/DOS or the Mac OS would be a lot less.  I'm not arguing that
>
>Why not try prototyping on a Mac in C sometime?  You'd be surprised how
>much time UNIX pisses away with its N-pass memory-thrashing
>compilers and ASCII include files.
>
>I'd like to see ANY 16Mhz 68020 UNIX box compile 45,000 lines per
>minute, then bind & launch 5 seconds later (I'm talking about
>THINK/LightspeedC for the mac).  8-).

This is a silly argument.  One way to improve programmer productivity
is a fast compiler.  Another way to improve programmer productivity is
a pleasant operating system environment.  Still another way is a good
debugging environment so your compiles are to add functionality or fix
bugs rather than "let's try it this way and see if it works."

In my (admittedly biased) opinion, MS-DOS's development environment is
mediocre and the Mac's is dreadful.  At its best, MS-DOS provides sort
of a low-grade Unix.  The only redeeming feature of the Mac
environment is the availability of fast C compilers, since you're
going to be doing a lot of recompiles.  Needless to say, you lose even
that if you're forced (as I was in my previous job) to use MPW.

The best operating system and debugging environments I ever used were
the DEC-20 and Xerox Lisp, respectively.  Although Unix fans have
(rightfully) pointed out the powerlessness of the DEC-20's command
decoder compared to the shell, the operating system hidden beneath it
was quite a bit more powerful than even Mach today.  Xerox Lisp's
development/debugging environment was seductive to the point that you
rarely bothered to compile your programs.

The NeXT, which I currently use, is sort of a cross between a Mac and
a low-grade Xerox Lisp/SmallTalk environment, in some ways combining
all the disadvantages of each.  Fortunately, it has Mach/Unix
underneath, so you can always get what you want done done.  In fact,
perhaps the best feature of the NeXT is that it isn't particularly
technologically advanced.

Mark Crispin / 6158 Lariat Loop NE / Bainbridge Island, WA 98110-2098
mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU -- MRC@PANDA.PANDA.COM -- (206) 842-2385
Atheist & Proud -- R90/6 pilot -- Lum-chan ga suki ja!!!
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