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From: billwolf%hazel.cs.clemson.edu@hubcap.clemson.edu (William Thomas Wolfe, 2847 )
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Education
Message-ID: <7478@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Date: 18 Dec 89 06:52:52 GMT
References: <1989Dec18.042005.19231@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu>
Sender: news@hubcap.clemson.edu
Reply-To: billwolf%hazel.cs.clemson.edu@hubcap.clemson.edu
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From bralick@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Will Bralick):
> How is an ignorant person supposed to have cultivated interests
> in "irrelevant" subjects without being exposed to those subjects?

   How about letting individuals determine their OWN interests??  

> I am almost willing to agree that they [students] at least shouldn't 
> be "captive" audiences.  That would be no problem if they would not 
> have to be supported by the people who had the responsibility and 
> self-discipline as young adults to learn the "irrelevant" material.

   Hey, this may come as a surprise, but 99% or more of the students
   who resent being part of a captive audience would like nothing better
   than an opportunity to participate in an efficient system by which
   they could become self-supporting as quickly as possible.  If you
   offer these people the opportunity to ditch all the bullshit and
   get onto the fast track to financial achievement, they'd gladly
   load up on student loans and pay back ALL the costs, plus interest.   
    
   It absolutely astounds me that the educational system takes people
   who are living in the depths of poverty in the filthiest of ghettoes
   and insists that they study wars of previous centuries, Shakespeare,
   etc.!!!  What these people need is intensive economic training so they
   can make better lives for themselves, not enough bullshit to convince
   them that they are completely wasting their time inside that classroom. 

> |    No, our educational system 
> |    is doing a FINE job of producing pregnant teenage dropouts who give 
> |    birth to heroin-addicted babies -- why should we change a thing???
> 
> Our educational system has its problems, but I think that the culture
> students _live in_ bears far more blame for the above than the school 
> where they spend only 30 hours/week.  

   Bullshit.  The educational system turns them off to school, and
   thereby sees to it that another generation remains in poverty.

   Education is the mechanism for financial upward mobility in our
   society, but many users find this to be a ridiculous suggestion
   given the extent to which effort is directed toward things which 
   have no practical significance to their lives or wallets whatsoever.

   If the educational system would get a good solid dose of reality and
   understand that its students are not the Kennedys and the Helmsleys
   and the Rockefellers, but people who are trying to make enough money
   to make a reasonable life for themselves, then the day when all of us
   ARE wealthy enough to sit around and study nonproductive topics will
   arrive a whole lot sooner.  Let the Rockefellers study Picasso and 
   Rembrandt -- they can afford to -- but most of us CANNOT. 

   Remember -- ours is a system which can't afford to provide prenatal
   care for indigent mothers.  It can't afford to shelter people who are
   living on the street.  It can't afford to give its elderly enough to
   keep them from having to eat dog food.  On what basis can it afford
   to hold back those people who would like nothing better than to get 
   into a position in which they can start paying more taxes??? 


   Bill Wolfe, wtwolfe@hubcap.clemson.edu