Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!well!dsmall From: dsmall@well.UUCP (David Small) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: GEnie uplink is shut down.. Keywords: whups, genie, usenet, uplink Message-ID: <15158@well.UUCP> Date: 21 Dec 89 23:57:02 GMT Lines: 94 After receiving mail on some concerns people have had with the USENet -> GEnie uplink, I've gone ahead and shut it down. It won't be back up unless those concerns are resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Concerns raised included -- Would GEnie be a 2-way site? Many did not want to see information going only one way. I agree; it should be 2-way. I will say it's necessary to show the potential such a link has before it could be developed from its present kludge to a good link; that's now been done. Would there be e-mail exchange? This is not a big technical problem, and I think it needs to be done, as many notes said. Would GEnie put some sort of anthology copyright on the notes? I very much don't want that, and neither did several other people. Obviously we can't have that. Most of the writers were in favor of the link *provided* there be no copyright hassles, no for-profit on my part, and that there be email and a 2-way link -- in other words, GEnie become a regular site. I see their point and agree. I've found in working with organizations that one example can be more effective than thousands of words (the old writer's adage of, "show, don't say".) As soon as everyone gets back from holiday vacation, I can show GEnie management the benefits for everyone in such an information exchange, with the present; many GEnie people very much want to be part of the Net. While I don't speak for GEnie, I have hopes that something can be worked out that will be satisfactory for everyone. The WELL and PORTAL, both of which I'm on, do charge for USENET access, but I consider that entirely fair; they have equipment and staffing costs, and aren't really gouging anyone. I think it'd be a good thing if we could GEnie to operate in the same fashion. There were concerns that the volume of notes back from GEnie would stress the net. I don't want that, and I don't want a thousand "How do I beat Level 7 on Dungeon Master" notes on the Net, either. Finally, a few writers missed the text on the original note where I said that I make no profit on these notes; the (not large) royalties made on the GEnie Gadgets support area are all donated to non-Gadgets volunteers who maintain the place. I am not allowed to divulge royalty rates, but this is a really low amount of money -- hardly some sort of "gold mine". Overall, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding; looking over my original note, I can see I wasn't too clear on my intent, which was working towards bringing GEnie into the Net two-way, with email, without copyright problems. I hardly want to be sneakernetting messages the rest of my life (*sigh!*), it gets old real fast. A few writers mentioned some hassles with Compuserve; I am completely unfamiliar with that story. Ditto with BIX. Anywho, look, it's the holidays, and we all have a lot better things to do than worrying about this. I think the GEnie people I've talked to (who seem pretty sane) will see the potential for *mutually* beneficial information exchange; the link won't reopen until these concerns are worked out to everyone's satisfaction (that means, you'll see it here before anything happens, so there's a chance to discuss it). If I've offended anyone, my apologies; it certainly wasn't my intention to do so. I wanted to demonstrate that the technology to link nets in a good way was here, not cause any fuss or trouble. I very much appreciate those who took time to write email explaining points I hadn't thought of (e.g., anthology copyright). Several notes spoke highly of Richard Stallman and the FSF; getting to talk with Richard at length was one of the highpoints of Hackers for me, and I know a good deal about the FSF. (He certainly doesn't get much good press in the computer trade journals -- most don't even stop to *listen*). What can I say ... I'm a card carrying EMACS user. So to recap, many users raised points I feel are completely valid, had not thought of, and I've responded by dropping the link until such time that it's resolved in an acceptable way. (That means acceptable to you, not to me, ok?) I'm very pleased with the number of people who agree that GEnie as a site is a good idea, provided it's a full, two-way information exchange. The idea of information exchange is alive and well. I also appreciate those who took the time to write before doing some sort of public primal scream; in my experience since '76, screaming on nets feels good, but it's the quiet and calm voices that get things done. It's time to go Christmas shopping here. We here wish you all a happy and safe holiday, and our best wishes for the new decade! -- thanks, Dave / Gadgets by Small p.s. I'll keep you informed of anything that happens relating to this link; however, don't expect rapid action -- you know how bureaucracies are. Also, everyone's off for the holidays in any event.