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From: 6600pete@hub.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.next
Subject: Re: What do I want to see in the Apple of the 90's?
Message-ID: <3334@hub.UUCP>
Date: 16 Dec 89 10:16:27 GMT
References: <6761@tank.uchicago.edu>
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Lines: 114

From article <6761@tank.uchicago.edu>, by phd_ivo@gsbacd.uchicago.edu:
> In article <3326@hub.UUCP>, 6600pete@hub.UUCP writes...
> I have had a Mac before I bought my NeXT, so don't tell me I haven't used
> a Mac.

Have I?

> One thing is for sure: what you consider a beta version is certainly
> much more reliable and stable than the unprotected Macintosh OS. If you
> run the wrong application on your Mac, your system dies.

Oh, God, here we go again. It's not the OS, it's the applications which don't
know any better than to not check out the system before running. Do you think
Apple is responsible for every dork who doesn't check for HFS before making
PBH calls?

> In contrast, my NeXT at one time was up for WEEKS, and I use the thing
> about 12hours/day.

Same with my Mac, when I'm not hacking it.

>>Nope. You can do it with a LaserWriter (not even a Plus) and a Mac Plus.
>>MF makes the wait even shorter.
> 
> Don't make us laugh. Sure, a CP/M machine can do this, too. That doesn't
> mean it's worth anything.

I wasn't saying it WAS worth anything. I was pointing out that spooling was
available for Mac PS printing with the implication that it wasn't on
the NeXT.

> Incidentally, what's the going price of a new Laserwriter? 

If you don't like the price, get a clone. Aple charges what the market will
support. That doesn't really say anything about the printer itself.

> So, why do people buy NT and NTX laserprinters, if they can do
> what you want to do on a non-plus laserwriter?

Because spooling is the only thing I was talking about. There are a lot of things
you can do with the NT line that have nothing to do with spooling, not the least
of which is speed.

>>> [ list of Mac applications ported to the NeXT, vaporware, and other
>>>   applications which have had implementations of their type on the Mac
>>>  for years. ]

> Like Excel? Which for years had a 1MB memory limit? Until late in this
> year, there wasn't a single decent Mac spreadsheet which allowed us to
> use memory. 
> Tell me: what decent Stats package exists on a Mac?

> What decent
> data handling processing languages and data tools exist on a Macs (although
> you and I may disagree here).

Full dBASE code compilers. I don't have much experience in databasing, but it
seems to me dBASE is "decent" by most anyone's standard.

> Text Filters? Programming Tools?

MPW. Lightspeed (THINK) anything.

> Graphically oriented Unix (don't tell me about A/UX
> [but factor in the $1000 price tag])?

Price tag is irrelevant, as I said before. Apple charges what it can.
X for A/UX will be out "soon," as will X for NeXT.

>> The NeXT's interface is more versatile and less consistent.

> I don't think its any more inconsistent than the Mac user interface...
> (try Microsoft garbage [on the Mac])

Hmmmm. The sheer _amount_ of rules for the Mac UI is larger than the
corresponding amount for the NeXT. Given what we've learned about the amount
of deviation to which programmers subscribe on the Mac, what's going to happen
when Microsoft releases Word for the NeXT? Ugh.

>>And no software, relatively speaking. And no interface consistency. And
>>periodic forced graphics upgrades to run new software.
> 
> I think there is more GOOD software today on the NeXT than there is for
> the Mac and the PC combined.

Whoops. If you'll read back a bit, you'll see we were talking about the Amiga
here.

>>And the emulator won't run Virtual, System 7.0, and I don't think Color QD.
>>What a bargain.
> 
> The point here was not to argue that one should buy an Atari, but that the
> Mac is vastly overpriced. The hardware---not the compatibility---is there
> at 1/2 the price

The hardware counts for nothing without the compatibility. I won't pay less
for something that's at least 2 years out of date.

> w/o entrenched interest in Macintosh magazines and NeXT failure,

Whoops. Macker is a free magazine I put together in my free time. I have no
entrenched interest in it because, as subscribers will attest, I haven't
even gotten my shit together to put out the first real issue yet. (Hang on,
folks. I have the articles all put together and all I have to do now is
wrap it all up with the editorial...)

> and/or interest in submitting Mac and *D*O*S* articles.

Ecuuuuse me for marketing my skills. I happen to have learned a lot about DOS
before I realized the error of my ways.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Gontier   | InterNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, BitNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa
Editor, Macker | Online Macintosh Programming Journal; mail for subscription
Hire this kid  | Mac, DOS, C, Pascal, asm, excellent communication skills