Xref: utzoo comp.sys.amiga:46151 comp.sys.mac:44782 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!mcsun!sunic!tut!santra!santra!robin From: robin@niksula.hut.fi (Jarto Tarpio) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga,comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: User interface(was Re: Xerox sues Apple!!!) Message-ID: Date: 20 Dec 89 08:46:50 GMT References: <6767@tank.uchicago.edu> <1989Dec17.112127.27333@me.toronto.edu> <14960@boulder.Colorado.EDU> <1989Dec17.223025.6618@me.toronto.edu> Sender: news@santra.uucp (Cnews - USENET news system) Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Lines: 76 In-Reply-To: casseres@apple.com's message of 18 Dec 89 17:29:50 GMT In article <5828@internal.Apple.COM> casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes: In article jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R. Jacobs) writes: > Menus and mice are great when you are first learning to use a system, but > they get in the way of experienced users. Sorry, but this is an absurd statement. There are many thousands of experienced users who are very happy with the Mac interface. I think, that they would be _more_ happy with a possibility to use it. I like the mouse and use icons etc., but I always have a small window in a corner, where I can run DOS. That's a feature. > ...An ideal system should > allow the user to use _either_ the mouse or the keyboard, based on the > preference of the user. Not either-or. Both simultaneously ! > Neither the Mac nor the PC are even close to > ideal in this regard. Apple had a great opportunity to make an ideal > system with the Mac, but they blew it by forcing the mouse on everyone. There is nothing in the Mac that forces any application to use the mouse. In the early days of the Mac, quite a few developers did quick ports of their PC applications, with type-in interfaces, to the Mac. Guess what? Nobody would buy them. SOMEBODY wants the mouse whole lot! You missed the point. Why use keyboard OR mouse, when it should be possible to use keyboard AND mouse. I have always liked systems, where you can freely choose the way you use it. > Sure, lots of applications will give you a choice in many commands, but > this is not part of the standard interface -- you can't even start up > the application without using the mouse. This is a bug, not a feature. No, friend, this is a feature that you don't like. Is it a feature to leave something out ? I like to compile and run my proggies without a mouse, when I have to do it a lot. > If keyboards are so evil, then > why do so many Mac applications have keystroke "shortcuts" for most > of their commands? Because that is a standard part of the Mac user interface. Now I don't understand. > Again, giving the user a _choice_ is a better solution. RIGHT ! Talk to the application developers. Talk to system-developers :) PLEASE ! There are articles here concerning only PC and Mac. What do they do here ? Please do not post such articles here. David Casseres Exclaimer: Hey! -- * Jarto Tarpio * robin@niksula.hut.fi * Helsinki * Place * * * f36695h@taltta.hut.fi * University of * Commercial * * * robin@otax.tky.hut.fi * Technology * Here ! * -- * Jarto Tarpio * robin@niksula.hut.fi * Helsinki * Place * * * f36695h@taltta.hut.fi * University of * Commercial * * * robin@otax.tky.hut.fi * Technology * Here ! *