Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!excelan!crdgw1!brspyr1!tim From: tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Tim Northrup) Newsgroups: news.misc Subject: Re: The Rape of Usenet (an alternative view) Keywords: The wholesale capturing of Usenet by GEnie Message-ID: <6576@brspyr1.BRS.Com> Date: 20 Dec 89 23:04:17 GMT References: <946@crash.cts.com> Organization: BRS Information Technologies, Latham NY Lines: 106 canada@crash.cts.com (Diane Barlow Close) writes: >I object to this ONE WAY transfer of information. Dave talks about the >*exchange* of information. This is not an *exchange*, it is a one-way >transfer of Usenet information. Dave also mentions 2-way Email! I would call that an *exchange*. I think the idea has merit -- this from a person who sometimes asks questions. If I have a problem that I would like solved, or a question that I need answered, I would prefer as many people see it as possible (preferably those that might be able to help). I see this as a means towards that end. >I also object most strenously to Dave limiting MY access to information by >scaring away Usenet posters who don't want the kind of publicity GEnie >offers. Usenet is supported FREELY by a conglomeration of machines (each >company covering a bit of the expenses) and I object very, very much to >GEnie profiting from other sites' generousity. I don't quite understand this. My view is that Dave is trying to help the folks that have GEnie accounts, but no access to Usenet. This is as an aid to *those users*. Yes, GEnie profits from the situation, but the users who could use the information profit more in my opinion. And what "kind of publicity" does GEnie offer that the Usenet doesn't? I honestly don't understand this statement. If you post to Usenet the message travels around the globe to who-knows-where; is GEnie any different in this regard??? I can't see this scaring away anyone myself. Could you explain? >-> [...] other areas on GEnie are >-> expressing great interest in having a USENET uplink. Basically, folks, >-> USENET is perceived as the place where the people who know what they're >-> doing post notes. >Does this mean that soon *all* Usenet groups are going to be appearing on >GEnie? I hope we can stop this before it gets out of hand! I doubt it ... Dave is probably referring to the comp.sys newsgroups here. >I don't call a one-way exchange ``freedom of information''. I also don't >call *free information* being uploaded to a *pay service* ``freedom''. >The hacker ethic is AGAINST the *sale* of information (as GEnie represents). I disagree; GEnie represents an economical medium for the transfer of information. They don't charge you based on the information you get (other than for special services), only for your connect time. >If you want a TRUE example of the hacker ethic, then read a bit about >Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation. *They* represent the >hacker ethic! But they charge you for the tape when you want a new copy of Emacs, do they not? So what's the real difference? GEnie charges you for your time on their modem, FSF charges you for their tape. In both cases they are charging you for the medium and the support costs, not the information (unless you consider the other costs indirectly charging for the info, in which case FSF, uunet, stargate and all the rest are doing the same thing). >Write Dave Small and voice your objections TODAY, before it's too late and >Usenet becomes GEnie (and you have to pay through the nose for what was >formerly free)! A lot of people already pay through the nose! How does your site get the news feed now? You must pay some kind of transport costs (phone calls, modem charges, internet fees, disk space costs, whatever). USENET IS NOT FREE! >-> Well, enough said. I hope this leads to good things -- GEnie users >-> getting good information on time, for instance. >It's obvious from this sentence who is benefiting from this ``exchange'' of >information -- GEnie and no one else. You obviously are not a GEnie user, and have no feeling for them whatsoever. They could benefit greatly from such feeds. >The more Usenet becomes publicized, the greater the danger of someone in >political power becoming ``concerned''. Perhaps concerned enough to pass >legislation like that currenly up for review in New York: a sysop must >validate each and every *message* that is posted to his BBS and must also >guarantee privacy of the message and guarantee that the message NOT appear >on any other service. Hmmmm ... I would think this would be more a concern for GEnie than for the Usenet community. >Is there anything (legal?) that we can do to stop this link? In general, >are there any ``net rules'' for this type of thing? Is GEnie in any danger >by uploading Usenet articles wholesale? Wasn't a lot of these same issues covered a couple of years ago when StarGate was starting up? As I recall, not much could be done about it, and nothing really was. >-- >Diane Barlow Close I have no vested interest in GE or GEnie other than as a very satisfied customer. Same goes for Dave and Gadgets by Small. -- Tim -- Tim Northrup +------------------------------------------+ +---------------------------------+ GEnie: T.Northrup | UUCP: uunet!crdgw1!brspyr1!tim | Air Warrior: "Duke" | ARPA: tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com +------------------------------------------+