Path: utzoo!attcan!telly!evan
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Re: Sunday Shopping (the law is a Con)
Message-ID: <259070BE.2B0F@telly.on.ca>
Date: 21 Dec 89 05:57:17 GMT
References: <1989Dec20.222459.21666@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Distribution: ont
Organization: Public Access Usenet, Brampton, Ontario
Lines: 107

In article <1989Dec20.222459.21666@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> west@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Tom West) writes:

>This may have something
>to do with the fact that they know what it is like to have no common day off
>in a family.  They are aware that the idea of nobody *having* to work Sunday is
>bunk.

So what? There are laws that dictate the maximum number of hours you can
be forced to work. If you do Sunday, you'll get another day off.
And, to an increasing number of people, there's nothing special about
which day it is. There's nothing special about Sunday.

>Most small businesses will *have* to get somebody to work there.

They're also free to close Monday or Tuesday, or whatever is their
slowest day. Remember, there's only a finite amount of money to be spent
out there. If more gets spent Sundays, less will get spent Mondays.

Most of the local fruit markets are open Sunday but closed either Monday
or Tuesday. What's wrong with applying that elsewhere?

>You simply won't be hired if you can't work the shifts.

You may not have noticed, but Ontario employers are having a rough time
finding workers. Think of it another way - people willing to work
Sunday will be more valuable, and probably paid more, than those who
won't. The flexibility is worth something to a store owner, and people
willing to work Sunday will be able to command higher wages.

>I put it people's imagination just how much outcry there would be if business
>offices decided to open Sundays.  You can bet a bloody big one!

Don't fool yourself. The number of people who either work weekends at
the office or bring their work home with them is higher than you may
think. The banking industry didn't fall apart when some started opening
branches on Saturdays. That didn't mean all banks or all branches are
open Saturday, but the ones who do get a competitive advantage.

>(Saturday's are of course out of the question as that's the big day in most
>retail stores).

So when do the people shop, if they work Saturdays?

>  As for the rest, of course Sunday shopping is a good thing.  It's convenient
>to shop when one has a day off, and nobody is going to force them work Sundays.
>(And if its repeated often enough, it will be true!)  But then, they're only 
>retail workers, not real people.

So who's holding a gun to your head to remain a retail worker?

>  It is worth remembering some minor facts.  If a store can remain open on a
>Sunday, it almost certainly will *have* to so in order to compete.

Why is this a fact? I can think of many kinds of stores which would not
open Sundays even if it they could. A place like a Grand & Toy, for
instance, which caters to businesses, would likely find Sundays to be
its quietest days, and stay closed.

Even if it is true, why can the store not close on its lightest day instead?

>  When a small store of 4 employees is open on Sundays, at least 25% if the 
>staff is going to *have* to work Sundays, law or no law.  

So? The person doing that shift gets paid more in return for the sacrifice.
Or brownie points. Or closer to a promotion. I don't know anyone who got
ahead in life by just working 9 to 5.

If you're not willing to sell me something when I want to buy it, fine.
Just don't stop me from going to the person who is willing - and there
are plenty who are willing...

Retail workers who can't stand working on Sundays will look for employment
outside the retail field.  Companies who fire workers who don't work
Sundays will find that they just don't have enough workers for the rest
of the week. Retail workers will be harder to find. Pay will increase,
as the Sunday element will make retail workers more scarce (and thus
more valuable) than office personnel.

>I, at least, don't believe that my 
>convenience is more important than retailers worker's home lives.

Fine. So don't shop Sundays. Nobody's forcing you.

But, to be consistent, I imagine you also factor the effects on workers
in other industries, in every consumer decision you make:

- You don't buy the superior Japanese car, but the inferior American
  one because it will keep GM workers from getting laid off;

- When you buy clothing, you're always willing to pay the premium price for
  Canadian goods in order to protect the home lives of our textile workers;
  
- You buy lots of fur products, because those hunters have been having a
  rough time making a living since the animal rights groups got involved;

- And, of course, you lobby the government for higher vegetable prices,
  to give our farmers a decent living.

>(And yes, I
>work 9-5 M-F and get burned by this as well.  That's why Saturdays exist).

My heart bleeds...

-- 
  Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
          evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan / (416)452-0504
If women designed condoms there is no doubt they would be not ribbed, but padded