Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ukma!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jrossi@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (The Electric Sol) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Jesus Saves (was Re: Strangers in a Strange World Message-ID: Date: 15 Dec 89 05:31:16 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Jet Propelled Lab - Pasadena CA Lines: 48 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article JRA102@psuvm.psu.edu (Jim Achuff) writes: >In article , >No one can save him/herself. Only Christ can save us. And yes, I do know >that I'm saved, because I believe that Crist died for my sins, and I have Am I stupid? Does anyone else at least see fundamental contradiction that I am grappling with ... if I am to honestly come to faith in Christ, this question must be asked. It dosen't even necessarily have to be answered. The fact that there is only one response like this one, is, indeed, re- assuring, however, let me point out it is again this kind of immature response that is alienting to a lot of people, it is a turn off. The fundamental problem being it seems that we *have* to do something to be saved. We have to *desire* it. We have to *want* it. Jesus is willing to throw us a rope, if we ask him to, right. Does this desire come from us or from God? If it does come from us, as some one else pointed out, we do have, however small, reason to boast. If it dosen't come from us but from God, then a Just God cannot punish anyone, IMHO. It seems that God is willing to save us, If we are willing to make the effort to be saved. We can't do so without his help, and likewise, he can't without our *desire* to let him. And that *desire* manifests itself in the appropiate attempts at change in behavior. Now *where* does this desire come from...by originating in our hearts and free will? Or does God put it there? If God puts it there, I think we arrive at Calvinism. If we put it there, we arrive at Free Will...which means "we saved ourselves in so much as we did what God required of us in order to "throw us a rope." >As far as fearing death, Hell; no, I'm not afraid, because my savior has >already served my time in Hell, and death has been conquered. I know where I >will spend eternity, how about you? It angers me to be taunted and intimidated in this manner. For what its worth, I believe I am one with eternity. I believe I am because of the Grace of God. My oneness with eternity is a free gift from God. The neat thing is I can now continue to live my life as I want, and whats even neater, is I want to live a life of love and peace. Take Care -- -jrossi@jato.jpl.nasa.gov "Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils -ames!elroy!jato!jrossi is still choosing evil." -Cptn. Trips **********************STANDARD DISCLAIMER******************************