Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: MATH1H3@uhvax1.uh.edu (David H. Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved Always Saved Message-ID: Date: 15 Dec 89 07:01:05 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston Lines: 18 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I am new to this particular thread, but I want to put in my own two bits. First, if you replaced 'saved' with 'elected', then I would have no argument (I think) with David Mielke. If God has elected someone to salvation then he is certainly saved. However we have no way of knowing for certain whether someone is in fact elected. The person who perseveres in Christian faith until death is certainly saved, however, because he has God's promise on that. One pastor has told me that when the Bible teaches election it is always addressed to believers under persecution, as a comfort to them. So if you are holding on to your faith in the face of persecution, that is a time to think about your election. Jesus did say very clearly that one can have faith and lose it. In the parable of the sower he said, concerning the seed falling on the rock, "They believe for a while, but in time of testing they fall away." (Luke 8:13) David H. Wagner My opinions and beliefs are completely separated from my employer's lack thereof.