Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!wuarchive!mit-eddie!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: procsy@cbnewsd.att.com (Jeff Sargent) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Strangers in a Strange World Message-ID: Date: 17 Dec 89 07:19:43 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 36 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article jrossi@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (The Electric Sol) writes: > did Adam and Eve have an erotic relationship wherein there would be children, > or are sexual relations a consequence of the fall, and therefore, human life > in the Garden limited to just Adam and Eve? > > If you answer yes to this question [presumably meaning the second part of > the question], then the most obvious result of the optimal way, is that > you and I would never exist. One of the biggest bogosities in church history is the promulgation of the idea that sex is itself intrinsically bad, which is implied in the idea of sex being a consequence of the Fall. Remember, God's command to be fruitful and multiply was given *before* the Fall; presumably that command would have been obeyed then by the same method as it is now. [That is, indeed, the one and only command of God which humanity has obeyed to the full! :-)] It has been suggested, in fact, that sexual pleasure would have been greater before the Fall than it is after -- which makes sense, because to experience the extreme openness and vulnerability of sex, without at all having to worry about actually being wounded, would surely be paradisal, since it would lead to a much greater oneness and communion between the partners than occurs today. -- -- Jeff Sargent att!ihlpb!jeffjs (UUCP), jeffjs@ihlpb.att.com (Internet) AT&T Bell Laboratories, IH 5A-433, Naperville, IL (708) 979-5284 "In the world you'll have your troubles; but smile! I've got the world beat." -- Jesus, as quoted in John 16:33 (up-to-date version) [The idea that sex is evil was certainly present in some Gnostic groups. However as applied to mainstream Christianity it seems to be primarily an accusation that various groups make about others. That is, it's common to accuse people of believing it, but I don't know of any group within mainstream Christianity that actually did. There is a strong tradition of abstaining from sex -- as from the world in general -- in order to concentrate on God in a special way. Whatever criticisms one wants to make of this approach, it is not based on the idea that sex is evil. --clh]