Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: MATH1H3@uhvax1.uh.edu (David H. Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved Always Saved Message-ID: Date: 19 Dec 89 07:42:03 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston Lines: 36 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu [Dave Wagner claimed that one can have faith and lose it, citing "They believe for a while, but in time of testing they fall away." (Luke 8:13) Dave Mielke responded > Jesus is not discussing someone who ever had saving faith here. He is > discussing someone to whom God has not given the gift of true faith, > but rather one who is, on his own, trying out the Christian faith much > as all sorts of people try out all sorts of other faiths. Anyone who is > trying to be saved by trying to build his own faith with his own > efforts, rather than asking God to give him more and more faith, will > eventually find that it is just too hard and give up. --clh] Is that how Jesus explains it? He said: "Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, But they have no root. They believe for a while..." Jesus is describing shallow faith. If you die with any Christian faith, even shallow faith, you are saved. But shallow faith is easily lost. An how do we obtain faith? Does the unbeliever ask for it? "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8. How does God give faith? "Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ." Just as Jesus explained in the parable. Faith is strengthened, not so much by asking God for more, although I have nothing against that, but by continual feeding on God's Word. "Like newborn babies, crave pure spititual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good." (1 Peter 2:2). "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Tim 3:15-17). David Wagner My opinions and beliefs are completely separated from my employer's.