Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think!mintaka!mit-eddie!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: MATH1H3@uhvax1.uh.edu (David H. Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Two types of Faith - Was Once Saved Always Saved Message-ID: Date: 21 Dec 89 05:14:07 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 38 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Path: elroy!math1h3 From: math1h3@elroy.uh.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Two types of Faith - Was Once Saved Always Saved Message-ID: <5270.258e1769@elroy.uh.edu> Date: 19 Dec 89 11:11:37 CST References: Organization: University of Houston News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to soc.religion.christian Lines: 27 > [Ken writes] >> . . . . >> >> James 2:14 describes a faith that does not save. I believe what >> distinguishes the faith of Luke 8:13 and James 2:14 from the faith that >> Paul talks about in Ephesians is that the latter is clearly stated as >> being the gift of God. The former faith is not. Instead it is the >> same kind of faith that the demons have (James 2:19). >> >> . . . What James describes is a faith of knowledge only. We would say that it is not faith at all. The germans have a good phrase for 'believe in,' namely 'glauben an', which literally is 'believe on'. Faith is believing on Jesus, relying on him for salvation. The demons do not do this. But in Luke 8:13 Jesus said: "Those on the rock are ones who receive the word with joy..." The demons do not receive the word of God with joy! Nor is this a faith of knowledge only, but a faith involving joy. A person who dies in such a faith is surely saved. Notions that suggest our salvation, or election, depend on the quality of our faith must surely be rejected. A person should not think "Is my faith good enough to get me into heaven?" This is not much different from saying "Are my works good enough to get me into heaven?" I don't think either Ken or Dave Buxton are suggesting this, in fact, they said that it depends on the source of 'faith'. But I think they are treading on thin ice. David Wagner My opinions and beliefs are completely separated from my employer's.